RANT - How did we get from a tiny bit of news to this pile of crap?!

[bintofbohemia]

Sorry, I haven't had a family rant for a year or so, and I just have to let this one out.

Talking to my stepmum last night who I haven't spoken to in a while (they've been away) and was just talking about things that have happened and one of them is that someone contacted me about the possibility of a job. There are two going, one from 9-5 and one from 5pm-1am. I was saying the evening one would be good as I wouldn't have any childcare costs, but would have to be up at 7am at look after DS2 (who's only just two). Otherwise I could do the 9-5 job but accept that a big fat chunk of the wages would go on childcare.

Anyway, she goes off on one about how I need to get back to work so I can "have a life" and "kids are boring" but I should make sure I get more than £20k because that's "nothing" and a rubbish wage. What's really narked me though is that she said that she "can't help because they're still working and the days change and anyway you need to sort out your own children because when we retire we're, you know, retired and going to have a rest, and nobody helped us out and you need to sort yourself out."

So, taken alone, that appears fair enough - apart from the fact that I hadn't asked her to help, I would never ask her to help, partly because I think you probably need proper formal childcare if you don't want to fall out with your family, and partly because their idea of childcare was to lock me and my brother out of the house two hours a night whilst my younger half sister (their "proper" child) was all safe and warm at her grandmother's house. When they remembered they would leave the garage open and put a mug of orange squash on the floor (like we were a pair of dogs) but the rest of the time we either broke in through the kitchen window or waited on the doorstep in all weathers until almost 6pm. As if I would let them look after my children!

I'm just so cross with myself and I don't know why I didn't tell her to shut up - actually yes I do, because she'd tell the whole family I'm an evil ungrateful cow who has it in for them and is "just like her mother." They live two minutes away and never see the kids anyway because kids are boring. They see the children in passing for about half an hour every two months but never spend any one to one time with them.

Feel slightly better for getting that out. Dunno whether to call her back and say "gosh, I hope you weren't thinking I was asking, I would never get you to do my childcare!" or just leave it and fume.

I can see why you're annoyed but I don't think it's worth having a bit fall out over.

How about your make a point of speaking to her in the next few days and then just say, "you know stepmum, I got the impression that you're a bit worried that you'll be expected to do childcare and I just want to reassure you that it really wasn't something I was expecting from you. I'd prefer to have more formal childcare so don't worry, it hadn't even crossed my mind"

as for you're job, you do what you like, and congratulations!

This is the thing, we've had so many fall outs in recent years that most of them are no longer mentioned and we sort of rub along harldy seeing each other with me swallowing my anger about all kinds of crap that will never be sorted. (Namely my father making a speech at my wedding about how hard it is to bring up kids but at least he did it, unlike my mother, and then blanking me the rest of the day. Compare to his speech at my half sisters wedding a few months ago about how fucking fabulous she is, there's no doubt left as to whether he thinks I'm shit and she's great.)

Sometimes I can not think about it, but when I have to see/speak to them I always get really wound up. It's horrible!

I can see my soon to be ex and his partner doing this to our grandchildren. He is of the belief that once they are 18 they are no longer his responsibility and has no notions of being the standard granddad. Yes he too thinks children are boring.

If I were you I wouldn't allow these people inside my door again. You owe them nothing. Please stop seeking a relationship with them because it's never going to happen.

When they ask to visit again just say it's not convenient and put down the phone. It's easy to loose contact.

Congratulations from me too on your new job. I hope you work out the best time and get the best possible childcare arrangements in place for your beloved children.

Times like this I wonder why I bother with any of them. We're having a party for my DCs birthdays next week, and if I didn't invite them I'd feel like I was depriving my children of their grandparents (which is a fucking joke!) and giving them a legitimate reason to badmouth me to everyone - which lets face it, they already do anyway. (I found out at the weekend that they were sulking at our wedding because they "hadn't been allowed to be involved". We spent 6 months asking them to be involved and finally got on and booked it all ourselves. )They are basically never going to forgive the fact that I have half my mother's DNA (nice one dad) and now have a relationship with my mother. Who actually does want to see my children and loves spending time with them.

Oh, and my brother lives overseas and is coming back for the first time in years today. There's a get together at my parents so everyone can catch up with him. If I don't see them I probably wouldn't get to see him. There are some relatives who are really lovely and I wouldn't want to lose, but I worry if I cut my parents out, I'd lose the lot.

celticfairy - sorry that you're having this with your ex. Does he think the sun shines out of his new partner and the kids are secondary/an annoyance?

I just don't get it, even if I fell out with DH and hated him I would still love my children because they are mine.

I understand. There is always someone or some event that draws you back in. I would keep aloof and distant from them though giving them nothing but the politeness and time you would afford a stranger.

Enjoy your day with your brother. And keep loving your mum, she sounds like she's at least making an effort.

God Bint,you poor thing. I've followed your story - they are utterly toxic.

I think you need to cut ties. Every time you see them, they chip away another bit of self-esteem or bring back memories of their neglect and emotional abuse of you (I'm sure you know that's what it was.)

I cut ties with my parents at one point, and though it didn't solve everything, it allowed me to think things through and 'place' it all iyswim. It wasn't all churning around in my heart the whole time, and that enabled me to take a 'position' on it and be strong enough to see that through.

Good luck.

Hey onebat. Thanks. It keeps coming back to that, and I don't think there's any getting away from it, when even a seemingly innocuous conversation turns into something that keeps me away fuming about it. Still desperately trying to move far, far away from it all. It just really pisses me off that they're badmouthing me to people making out like they're all so perfect and I'm so ungrateful. (Apparently I "want to have a problem with my father" ffs).

I still don't know how to get all this resentment out, or to make it go away. I'd like to take an ad out in the paper informign everyone that they're not the pillars that everyone thinks they are, they were horrendously shit and cruel. But they'd still deny it or claim I was mad/making it up.

Bint he initially was going to abandon us, move a 150 miles away, and then reclaim our son after a few years! I pointed out to him that the courts wouldn't take kindly to this behaviour and spent hours talking him round to staying close. He has, reluctantly, come to the realisation that his children are more important to him than her, but he is adamant that he's not going to be the granddaddy type. He's inclined to be self absorbed and selfish. Plus I'm inclined not to believe a word he says, as he hates me now. Which isn't helpful. His partner has never met the children and by all accounts doesn't want to. They do intend to get married when our divorce comes through (she's had her divorce already) so I've no idea how this will pan out. The children never want to meet her either. It's such a mess.

Nice. It's so sad when things go so wrong and there's no hope of being amicable. At least your children have you, and they will be fine as long as they do. (I got a bit fucked up as we had no one who gave a shit about us.) Kids are quite canny and they'll see it for what it is.

My parents reckon all my problems are my own fault, due to my "perception" as no one can make you feel anything, apparently. We are responsible for our own feelings. (Which may be true, sort of, technically but I think it's a bit lame to neglect chidlren and claim its their own fault for being bothered.

your family sound dreadful
Agree with scruffy but will just change it slightly:

"you know stepmum, I got the impression that you're a bit worried that you'll be expected to do childcare and I just want to reassure you that I wouldn't even leave a tamagochi in your care "

Bohemia, I find this really helpful for getting my head clear on stuff like this. It works best if you watch her in action; there's a lot of stuff about families on there. It might look a bit weird at first but stick with it, it's changed my life.

It sounds to me as though your brother did the right thing in moving away.

Are you close to him? You both experienced a hell of an upbringing.

Why was your mum not involved in your upbringing? Did she know what you were going through?

In your situation I don't think I'd cut the ties completely, but I would avoid getting into any kind of conversation where you say anything real about yourself. Don't call them and if they call you just be polite, stressing how busy you've been.

The idea that you'd ask them to mind your children is just laughable. If I were you, I'd work the night shift so that you have your days with your children. It's not just the expense of childcare, it's what happens if they're not well, what happens if you don't completely trust the childminder, etc. And you would miss them and they'd miss you. Would you be able to put them into a playgroup for a couple of hours in the morning so that you could get a nap?

Sounds like you mum only keeps contact so she can be horrible to you. Like keeping a pet and half starving it all the time.

Just horrible.

Yes, I think you should say to her face "I'd never leave the kids with you, becuase you don't even like them."

I would not even bother to keep contact...you have better things to spend you time on.

Miggsie - you've hit the nail on the head, that's exactly how it's always been.

atswim - My brother's a bit weird. I think he thinks our half sister is great and doesn't rate me. I think he thinks the sun shines out of father and SM. I don't entirely know, because he won't ever talk about anything and thinks it's all silly. To be honest he's taken drugs since being about 13 and always drank/does drink a lot. I think that's how he's dealt with everything because he doesn't really talk. He took my side when my dad beat me up but I generally get the impression he doesn't care much. But I could be wrong, I barely know him anymore. He doesn't keep in touch with anyone much.

I am so tempted to do the nightshift as we'd be sorted financially then but I think I'd be half dead being a SAHM from 7-5 then doing an 8 hour shift on top. DS1 starts school in september but obviously would still need picking up/dropping off. (I've not been offered the job yet so it's all hypothetical at this stage but planning ahead!)

spiritmum - thanks for the link, off to check out the videos, looks interesting!

Bohemia, it's true, we are responsible for our own feelings. Which means that your father and stepmother are resonsible for their inability to connect with you an dtheir inability to treat you properly. Until they own that responsilbility they will keep on acting the way that they do and believing what they believe. Which may be forever, basically.

'Children are boring' is your stepmother's projection.

Any beliefs that your father has as to your mother or the fact that you share her genes is his projection.

They are living in their projections big style. So as you were being brought up in a family where the main players were living entirely in their projections, how were you supposed to do any differently?

Incidentally, a big part of projection is that we put onto others what we most fear about ourselves. So when your dad hates your mum for not raising you he is projecting onto her his own guilt about how he failed to raise you.

The only person whose love and approval you need is yours. You need nothing from your father or stepmother. What you do about allowing them into your life is your call.

Look, this is going to sound harsh but you can take it because I can hear that you have an amazing life now. You can be a victim here or you can go and create your amazing life, because we're all believing the stories we tell ourselves. So why not make yout story the one about the incredible woman who overcame such an upbringing in order to have a beautiful life with a great family and great job?

And look for the gift in what happened to you - has it made you more empathetic, stronger, a better mum to your own kids?

Wow, I cannot imagine how strong you have had to be to overcome what you have. Why look outside yourself for something that's already inside you?

crossed posts!

You are right, spirit. I've had some counselling and come a long way but now and again it rears up again. It'a just the anger/resentment, sometimes I don't quite know where to put it, because like it or not it is there and needs to go somewhere. It's just that they have behaved like crap and they just get away with it whilst I feel like shit. They don't care, I don't think they even think they did anythin wrong. Meanwhile my half sister is the most selfish awful person and yet can do no wrong in their eyes. It's so annoying.

But I see what you're saying about being a victim - it's something I'm aware of but struggle to practically address sometimes.

So I suppose 'I hope you didn't think I was hinting at you looking after the DCs while I'm at work (hollow laugh). I wouldn't trust you to look after a three-legged sewer rat' would help much?

It might help me.

Tremendously excellent post, spiritmum. That hits home for me; much appreciated.

BintofBo-I agree with Needafoot; detatch. And Atswim's analysis is excellent, too.

And what Miggsie said-Saying that to her face would be an excellent idea. In fact consider letting it be the opening line for any contact with her (instead of "hi, how are you" go with "oh, its you-no you don't qualify to watch my children"). That would tend to be a conversation killer, too-result!

She is badmouthing you anyway-you have complete and valid license to be a bitch to her. But that isn't really detatching is it?

I suggest aiming for neutral gear, ignore bait, don't respond beyond non-committal vagueness. A lot of 'oh, really' and 'maybe, I'll think about it'.

She is so self-absorbed that anything you say about yourself, however personal or trivial, will be processed by her through a set of 'batshitcrazy' filters that is all about her-filtering out any trace that you exist as an autonomous intelligent human being. She does not know what empathy is does she? Or your Dad for that matter?

The feelings you have of perhaps enduring a toxic bath after every contact? That is the future for feelings of your dc. Respect your own feelings, now, and protect your dc's feelings for now and the future. Drop the guilt or obligation or brainwashed notion of gp enhancing dc/dgc lives. Only good gp enhance, it sounds like these two need not apply.

Thank you, Toomany.

Bohemia, just about everyone lives as a victim. If not of our parents then the Government or the bankers or our employers...'them', basically. How amazing that you're moving away from that.

For as long as you are angry you are chaining yourself to them. Release it and you're free.

A powerful exercise for this to imagine your father and stepmum and half sister getting everything that is amazing. Great lives, loads of money, fab careers, you name it. Everything that they could ever want. See it, really picture them living the life of their dreams.

I know you don't want to but when you do this you're reprogramming your feelings about them i.e. the ones where they are still able to hurt you and so make you angry. This is about you taking back your power by retaliating peacefully. Eventually you'll find you can think of them with indifference because you've moved beyond the place where they can hurt you. You're not a victim any more.