Do women trade sex for love?

[rednosedays]

Okay I am starting a new thread as I did not want to hijack NJ's thread with discussions about rape and there were responses from a couple of people that I wanted to reply to.

I suggested that without a little bit of manipulation or coercion teenage boys would find it quite difficult to get laid. At least that was how things were way back when I was a teenager but perhaps things have changed.

In my mind I was thinking along the lines of: I will always respect you/I really love you/You are gorgeous/You are the only person for me etc which, in my very humble opinion (but perhaps I am just old and cynical or got it all wrong) were used by members of the male sex in order to get into a female's knickers. I KNOW women can do these types of things to, but in my humble opinion, it was more difficult for a teenage boy to get laid than vice versa.

The female, being susceptible to flattery and (hopefully) fancying the boy (and maybe hoping that he would fall in love with her or whatever) would agree to sex even though there were risk factors eg: she might get pregnant/he might have been lying about how he felt just to get her into bed/he might go around telling all his friends that she was an easy lay etc etc. She might genuinely have feelings for him whereas he might just be pretending.

Okay I was a teenager quite a long time ago and hopefully things have changed (but judging from the discussions that I have heard from my teenagers and their friends they have not changed THAT much).

Just want people's thoughts on this.

"but I guess in general women want a few other things thrown into the pot as well"

IME once men and women have done their shagging around, they both want more 'thrown into the pot'. How about love, friendship, intimacy, companionship, support and understanding for starters? After a while, and yes, I am speaking from personal experience here, sex for the sake of sex with a stranger/casual acquaintance loses its appeal. Unless of course you are a misogynistic selfish emotionally retarded individual that cannot appreciate the benefits of a loving and equal relationship of course.

cestlavie- answer the point another way- if you were a man,- which you are!- would you find it easy to have regular sex (or as reg as you wanted)with women if you were offering very little in terms of emotional commitment or friendship?

tortoise That's a very fair point.

I hate this idea that manipulating someone into sex is somehow normal. It's not. Some people do it, yes, male and female. And yes there does seem to be pressure on teenage boys to try it - but it's most likely got more to do with pressure on them to be seen as pushing their luck.

Whereas girls are pressured the other way. Boys are taught that they need sex as early on as possible (even if they'd rather wait), and girls are taught to hold out (even if they don't want to)

I'm not entirely sure what your question is OP? Do all women trade sex for love? No. Do some? Yes - big revelation.

However, and loathe as I am to reference another thread, seeing as you mention NJ's thread - I suspect that you are asking more if it is normal (or advised) for a woman to have sex not for the sake of sex itself (eg. when she wants it too), but because she's been told that she is loved (even if that love isn't apparent)? In which case the answer is a resounding no.

"cestlavie- answer the point another way- if you were a man,- which you are!- would you find it easy to have regular sex (or as reg as you wanted)with women if you were offering very little in terms of emotional commitment or friendship?"

Plenty of men do.

It is extremely well documented that

Men experience an increase in happiness on marriage, and a decrease on divorce. Women experience a decrease in happiness on marriage, and an increase on divorce.

Unsurprisingly, 70% of divorces are initiated by women.

Men are more likely than women to be happy about an unplanned pregnancy.

Where an abusive relationship exists, a woman is twice as likely to experience an unplanned pregnancy, because where the man is "in control" he is very likely to try and coerce an unwanted pregnancy.

So tell me again, which sex is seeking collateral benefits?

Purplepeony, as Kaloki says, plenty of men do.

I mean seriously, the thought that men only get regular sex as part of marriage or a deeply engaged emotional commitment?

"I mean seriously, the thought that men only get regular sex as part of marriage or a deeply engaged emotional commitment?"

Exactly, I'll have to tell that to my 20 year old DD and her Uni mates - I'm pretty sure I know what their reaction would be - total hilarity!

Rednose - less than 20% of men (in this country) use prostitutes, with less than half of that 20% being men in relationships, so it's not even that common amongst men.

Yeuch. My self esteem, and esteem for DH, would be very low if I thought he was only with me because he wanted a regular shag. I am genuinely by this.

Dogfish, did you not read my posts above? What do you make of the argument that the best reproductive strategy for a woman in a community where the monogamous heterosexual unit is not the norm (ie, all primitive cultures) is to ensure the strongest genetic material gets its chance, and the maximum number of men think there's a chance that the baby is theirs?

Oh, fuck it, you think that SATC is a scientific source. Of course you've fallen for evolutionary bollocksology.

I do wonder why, if money is more important to women, all the high paying jobs are taken by men...

"It makes sense for women to be monogamous because they can't have many babies"

Actually if you want to go down the biology route, it makes sense for women to have multiple partners, so that the healthiest sperm impregnates them. But that wouldn't fit in with the other generalisations.

tortoise Because women tend to sleep their way to money of course

FFS

Well done dogfish - managed to insult everyone with that last little post - tempted to expand on human biology, but frankly can't be bothered as think some views here are set in stone. Sad and completely disappointing but not unexpected.

Tortoiseonthehalfshell Excellent post.

I wonder how old you are OP, because this underlying assumption that men are only interested in sex and women want Happily Ever After is, imo, so so so outdated. 70s sitcom fodder in fact.

Thankfully it bears no relation to my experiences or the people I know - none of whom are so dull and one-dimensional.

I'm sorry that you clearly dont have the same experiences.

Ouch - I am 150 but I look good for my age - have to keep my aging husband happy with shots of botox to stop him running off with his floosie PA, hehe!

Err - Sex and the City, Desperate Housewives all going strong with hideous sexual stereotypes. In fact, American TV is shocking in its portrayal of male/female gender steretypes. Female newscasters all look young, but it is okay for the men to be old. Hollywood stars with multiple face lifts - eg: cannot look old.

I am curious about the whole issue of sexuality within human relationships. It appears to be a very common problem area in long term relationships, at least if the postings on here are anything to go by.

A lot of women who post on here seem to be quite unhappy in their relationships in one way or another. I completely agree that most people want a loving, committed long term relationship with all those good things - caring, sharing, kind, good parents etc, etc.

But, I think you would agree that it can be difficult to achieve, at least for a life time. Sorry to be boring and dull!!

so ceslavie and kaloki you are both confirming that plenty of men get plenty of sex from women who are offering just that- and no emotional strings?

This seems to fly in the face of the point made by the OP, non?

But they are posting because they are unhappy!!! If you are happy then why post and when you post about your happy relationship you get comments flung at you such as being a smug married - or you can't possibly be happy - or that your OH is secretly screwing around etc..................

Our children are influenced by what goes on on TV and by Hollywood, whether we like it or not. Yes, no doubt they recognise that it is mostly fantasy but nevertheless you listen to children of 8+ talking about sex and relationships - old gender steretypes are still around. And yes there are teenage girls AND boys who have sex when what they really want is love. Which probably is to do with poor parenting - anther whole discussion area. Just rambling in a boring way and must get back to work.

The reason women are fussier- looking at this ins a anthroplogic way- is that they need someone ( man) to stick around for 2 years until the baby is weaned. The men go out of the cave and bring back food and the women stay at homemaking clothes out of sabre tooth tiger skins.

Women are programmed to choose good providers. Men are programmed to continue the species- one woman takes 9 months to produce a baby, men can produce many by impregnating lots of different women.

This is also why "tear your clothes off sex appeal" has a 2- year limit.

What are you trying to achieve by this thread OP? Old gender stereotypes are still around, we know - for example men are expected to be the breadwinners. Just because this is the stereotype doesn't mean it holds true for everyone.

purplepeony I believe that was the point

PP - is this your opinion or do you have some evidence for your post? Link please?

"This is also why "tear your clothes off sex appeal" has a 2- year limit."

What a load of drivel, most of the happily long-term married over 40's on here would disagree with that little gem .

I find this thread utterly depressing.

What negative gender stereotyping - if I were not using the internet I would presume I had stumbled on some discussion from the 1950s.

If some of the depressing conclusions on here are the norm, then it is our duty to stop treating it as some kind of biological fact as this only perpetuates teaching boys that women only 'trade' sex for material possessions or security, or indeed, that other lady-only emotion', love.

And girls that boys will never really want security, love, babies, marriage/commitment as much as you, but as long as you keep them happy in bed, he won't take them away from you.
Sheesh. I can't bear to go on!

So in answer to your original question, OP: I don't. Neither do most self-respecting women I know.