How do you negotiate amount of personal/free time within a couple?

[loves2walk]

My H has a very strong interest in a sport. Before children, it didn't bother me at all that he spent saturdays/weekends away watching his team as I was happy to have my own time, going out with friends, whatever.

After our first child, I still didn't mind that much as I worked in the week so was desperate for baby/toddler time with DS1 at the weekends and happy to have that on my own.

After DS2 I started getting a bit resentful and these weekends seemed more frequent. They also seem to be snuck up on me, so H might mention a game in passing casually weeks before, then the week before the weekend say he is off at such and such a time for the match, back late that night usually and when I would question it, he would get cross, saying he's already told me and why am I surprised and 'I do this to him every time' and 'make him jump through hoops just to have some free time' etc. So I used to back down and let him go but I must admit by the end of each season I was resentful.

So this year, after lots of support for other things on MN I am a new assertive me! So I decided to try an emotionally mature/assertive way of dealing with it.

OK, so I said lets try and be equal in our 'time off' so he has a long day away at a match and a few of these (2-3) equal a weekend away for me. Sort of fine about that, though he was annoyed by my pettiness in trying to do it this way.

But he agreed there was no reason why our time off should not be equal. So last night I got a family calendar out and said lets put the autumn fixtures in the calendar in pencil, then my time pencilled in, then any couple things and see how it all fits.

So the plan goes like this -
Sept quiet - couple of matches, but as home ones he'll go with DS1 and they're early evening so no problem
Oct - 3 saturdays in a row, long days out
Nov - quiet
Dec - 3 saturdays in a row, all day again

H made the point that these were only the very important matches - there are more, but he'll limit it to only the really crucial ones. i.e. think I'm supposed to feel grateful at that concession!

So I made the point calmly, that I felt 3 saturdays in a row was unreasonable. Big sigh from H, not happy. So in the interests of avoiding an argument, I said I didn't want to discuss it anymore but would leave him to think about which he would choose because I felt 3 in a row, over 2 months, were too many. I got some 'it's like living in a big brother state' comment which I ignored.

I would like to see myself as a laid back partner, not controlling, happy to give my partner personal freedom etc. But I'm clearly not that laid back as I do end up resentful each year and feel a bit taken for a ride. BUT this equality thing I'm now trying, is not easy and I can see there being an argument tonight over it. I got a very cursory kiss goodbye this morning from H so I think he's smarting from what he'll see as me being controlling.

What d'you think?

Hmm i think a fair balance of personal time is essential. Personal 'me' time is something i couldnt live without, i have an Amature dramatics group i go to but it is seasonal Sep-may and sometimes it means me being away for a whoel Sat and Sun for maybe 3 weeks in a row and DP is pretty understanding becuase it is something i love doing with all my being much as i assume your DH feels about his sport.

My DP doesnt have any hobbies and very rarely goes out as he doesnt really have a saocial circle i encourage him to go out of the house and meet people though its good for a person to experience new things and spend time as a person rather than a couple or parent and if he did do something that took him away for a weekend at a time then i would be fine with it, relationships are about give and take and compromise.

Yes Alison, the life of a bachelor, that's it in many ways. Disappointing is how I think of it.

Lenin - he was OK with our weekend off as he was away in a European city watching sport!But that was after much trying to get time together to go, so I felt at the end of my tether. If we had the money I'd do this far more often as the kids seem to have my love of travel. But some of the resentment builds up because we can't just off and away while H is busy - the parent at home has to cope throughout the winter with ferrying in and out the car, standing around wet, cold sports fields all afternoon! Not much excitement there.

Like the idea of a babysitter for those saturday evenings though!

I think there may be a bit of a lesson-for-all here in that it's probably not a good idea to take a bloke who has a hobby he cares passionately about and just expect him to change because you want him to. You pressured 'persuaded' him to come round to the idea of having DC, OP, so it's not that surprising that he might feel a bit of resentment at being ordered to give up his hobby and take up one that you feel is more appropriate.

I think some people find the whole "family time" idea a bit cringy and restricting and visualise tedious days in theme parks.
Husband and I are on our second marriage with kids each from first marriages. Trying to make everyone play happy families just doesn't work, there are too many opposing ideas of what each person wants to do, especially now all "kids" left school or secondary school.
On weekends I think the adults need to recharge their batteries and follow their hobbies as well as organising weekends around the children's needs and wants.
Deciding what you want to do on a weekend may be more helpful than just saying you want him to stop doing what he enjoys and be with you and the kids playing happy families when he is wishing he was watching the football.
Some people enjoy going places all together as a family, others hate it. I love taking my kids to Blackpool to see the lights, go on the trams etc. My current and ex husbands would rather grate their knuckles, so I take the kids alone. Current and exhusband were cyclists, if I'd stop them cycling they'd be pacing around fretful. I hate it when I can't run, or if I have no time to myself to just sit and read a book sometime whilst husband entertains the kids.
If going somewhere all together really is important to you though then suggest that every 6 weeks or so you have a day when you go somewhere together and get him to come up with suggestions and tell him this is important to you like his football is to him. I don't see why this can't be a Sunday though.

I get what you're saying SGB, square pegs and round holes. But although he was into this sport before kids, he was never quite so determined to attend matches. But I could of predicted perhaps that he might be the type of person to find children difficult company- patience and tolerance were never strong points of his, so perhaps my expectations are just unrealistic and like someone else said, I need to change my attitude, not force him to drop a passion. I get that.

I wouldn't say he was pressured into having a child - he is far too sure of his own mind to allow anyone to do that. More he didn't want to burst our happy bubble with uncertainty of a child, he's more anxious of change than I am, so he needed reassurance that it would enhance our lives, not detract. When he has childtime in a way that suits him- only 1 child at time, task focused activity, sport related preferably he enjoys it and can talk about the kids for hours- long after I've got bored! But we parent differently and cope differently and maybe I need to accommodate/embrace those different styles and needs more.

Thanks rebecca - i know he needs recharge time and this sport offers that. I still think 3 Saturdays in a row is too much but I could try just going with it in October and saying each Sunday is my recharge time to plan as I like - a run / swim when suits me and/or family walk /meal if that's what I fancy, or he has kids if I fancy going off on my own. That might work.

In cricket season my husband may be playing cricket most weekends and if an away match can have 2 hours travelling each day so be gone 9-8 (only 12-7 if home match)so that's why 3 in a row seems nothing to me as I may have races on 3 consecutive Sundays as well.

My parents however who never really had any hobbies (my dad has far more since my mum died) found our weekend lifestyle a bit odd.
During the week we're both in most evenings except for odd committee meetings so we do see each other. weekends are just busy.
A bloke who never went anywhere and had no hobbies would probably bore me, especially if he resented me having hobbies.

I am a sports widow, we have never disagreed about football, and pre-baby I used to go (a bit). DD us now 14 and has a great realtionship with me but less so with her dad - that is the price he paid though its never been discussed. I've always been there for her, and she tolerates his football now much as I do, as a kind of benevolent affliction. But he works very hard, we have a great life and the football provides all of us with a great group of his friends that we can call on if we are in need- he has known them many years and they are all 100% trustworthy re money/house/children, a kind of extended family, with their own families too.

Meanwhile we watched SIL and BIL self-destruct after becoming parents, by trying to keep score/be equal, both in free-time, childcare time, and money spent. It just didn't work.

So our live and let live way has worked for us, with some drawbacks and some advantages - it has definitely got easier now dd is older and I have more independence

amigababy...you have hit the nali on the head there. o men not realise that they are, by beibg so absorbed in their own interests, missing out on the children?
My DS1 who should be at the prime time for spending time with his dad comes to me for everything. His dad will live to regret it one day and OP so will your DH.

I really hope not. You know, I hope things don't get so bad, that my DS's relationship with my H is damaged by it. Maybe things can be changed.

One DS shares my H's competitive streak, perfectionist, into sport in a big way - so maybe they will bond over that.

But the other DS is less competitive, he is more interested in colour, art, writing, creative things. Architecture is his passion right now - god can't even spell it!

So I do worry about their relationship as I think that DS is only 'pretending' to be into sport to impress/be liked by his dad. Maybe? Or maybe too much analysis by me.

You sound though you have a tough time alison, with both weekend days taken up with your H hobbies. What age are your DC?

You know when you start thinking about a problem as just being a practical thing - and then realise some way down the line, it's not practical, it's deeper than practical.

Well, I've realised this isn't just practical. I think my H is depressed, maybe not clinically, but enough to be self absorbed. Self absorbed people cannot tolerate the noise/needs/demands of children.

I wonder how children of a depressed parent, cope. When that parent seems 'tired' and 'stressed' all the time and can't engage in the fun/mess/clammer of children. I wonder whether those children grow up thinking they are tiring and stressful and feel down about themselves.

Sorry, need to go to bed. Should have done an hour ago before I started fretting about all this. Thanks rebecca and amiga and alison.

I'm not convinced that people with hobbies do suddenly decide they've missed out on time with their kids when younger and have a miserable older age which seems to be what some of you are wishing on these blokes.

In my experience people with hobbies cope better when kids leave home and are independant than those without hobbies who suddenly find themselves at a loose end as their feelings of self worth are more tied up with their parenting role and they haven't built up as much of a same age network.
Also I find alot of men are much better with secondary school age kids than primary and preschool ones.

I think the whole "family time" thing is a fairly recent invention. When we were young on weekends the kids over 5 played out with other kids and the parents did stuff around the house, the men all disappearing down the pub for hours on end on Sunday lunchtime whilst the women folk cooked lunch. The latter was mainly our northeastern relatives. Ferrying kids around for hours wasn't done and family trips out weren't a frequent occasion.

Does your husband think he's depressed? If he is depressed I'd expect him to become less interested in football as depressed people lose enthusiasm for their hobbies. If he is still enthusiastic and happy when at footie matches then it isn't depression. My dad hated the noise of small children, but was an excellent father otherwise. He's also a much more hands on grandparent now my kids are secondary school age, but hated the loud, high pitched voices of young kids and the tantrum phase.

3 Saturdays in a row is a long time when DH is too knackered to do anything on a Sunday and everything is hanging on the one free Saturday: things go wrong, things come up, weather gets worse etc.

I wonder if - just as your DH isn't used to sorting the kids on his own because he doesn't do it often - you're not used to knowing what to do with your free time for the same reason (!)

Why not just take the opportunity anyway? Try it, you might like it! Of course I don't think you should rock the boat for the sake of it but while he says it's "just a Saturday" and thinks you're being petty by dividing it up, it would be interesting to see what he'd say when the boot's on the other foot.

You're right rebecca about family time being a more recent thing - my mum says this often about my trips here, there and everywhere. She said that if we had 1 'trip' each summer we were lucky. But my happiest memories are when we took bikes, the little sailing boat and my pram/dolls to Hampstead Heath - I remember it as though we did it a lot, but apparently it was a rare treat!

You are also right about this depression. He isn't actually depressed, as he's so excited about the start of the season, thrilled that we're off to a restaurant together this saturday, pleased that couple friends invited us to a tapas bar next week etc. So not depressed. But down when faced with noise and hassle of kids. I think he will be better able to join in when they don't fight as much as they do and when he can talk to them more.

We talked today. We went for a coffee without kids and I told him I felt disappointed sometimes that he had so little interest in doing family stuff, and that I felt under pressure to do the lions share of the work at weekends while he enjoyed a leisure activity. He told me he had long since got over his disappointment that I wasn't interested in sport. OK, so I've taken that on the chin! I tried and have been to rugby internationals, county cricket matches and a grand prix in the past, but I just don't get it, it doesn't interest me. So I have to accept that we do parent in different ways and we are interested in different things.

He apologised for not being more into family, but just said he isn't, though he adores them. He thinks I try to do too much, because I get itchy feet and that I should go off and do something for me, while he stays home, reads sunday papers and lets boys play with lego. I can see that to some extent. Although the boys often jump at the chance to go off somewhere, it is always me who initiates it and they do love their home time, we often say they are little homebirds.

He wants me to find something that I want so I'll be happy to see him off to his matches during the autumn. So he just doesn't want to compromise any more than he has already - which he thinks is a lot and I predictably enough, don't see, really. But what I most want is for us all to be happy, without resentment on either side and talking to him has helped that.

By the time I get back to my desk today, after our coffee, he'd sent me a lovely email which made me laugh out loud it was so funny, and a bit naughty and a bit romantic, so I'm feeling much more positive about this whole thing. I do love the grumpy old man that he is!

You wanted to go orienteering. That's a sport. There's a world championships going on in Norway at the moment. It's just not a sport he's interested in.
I'm interested in sport, but have zero interest in football or any sport where you just watch other people. Many football watchers aren't interested in actually doing sport, they just tend to be obsessed with football, which is fair enough but he can't complain you aren't interested in sport just because you don't like watching other people do it.

Otherwise things sound positive.

But I'm really not interested in sport. If the orienteering thing got competitive, I'd just be showing other people the way forward and happily bringing up the rear!

The reason I got into it was I go to a gym and run, just because I absolutely have to do something to offset my love of eating or I'd be huge, anyway, a trainer there with kids told me about it asked and I was hooked on the idea. The club is family friendly, so every other sunday the course is designed for kids, therefore easier, they all meet for sandwiches & tea in the car park afterwards while kids play in woods, sounds ideal for us. But my H is into any and every sport going - watching only nowadays, and just can't understand my lack of even slight interest.