How do you negotiate amount of personal/free time within a couple?

[loves2walk]

My H has a very strong interest in a sport. Before children, it didn't bother me at all that he spent saturdays/weekends away watching his team as I was happy to have my own time, going out with friends, whatever.

After our first child, I still didn't mind that much as I worked in the week so was desperate for baby/toddler time with DS1 at the weekends and happy to have that on my own.

After DS2 I started getting a bit resentful and these weekends seemed more frequent. They also seem to be snuck up on me, so H might mention a game in passing casually weeks before, then the week before the weekend say he is off at such and such a time for the match, back late that night usually and when I would question it, he would get cross, saying he's already told me and why am I surprised and 'I do this to him every time' and 'make him jump through hoops just to have some free time' etc. So I used to back down and let him go but I must admit by the end of each season I was resentful.

So this year, after lots of support for other things on MN I am a new assertive me! So I decided to try an emotionally mature/assertive way of dealing with it.

OK, so I said lets try and be equal in our 'time off' so he has a long day away at a match and a few of these (2-3) equal a weekend away for me. Sort of fine about that, though he was annoyed by my pettiness in trying to do it this way.

But he agreed there was no reason why our time off should not be equal. So last night I got a family calendar out and said lets put the autumn fixtures in the calendar in pencil, then my time pencilled in, then any couple things and see how it all fits.

So the plan goes like this -
Sept quiet - couple of matches, but as home ones he'll go with DS1 and they're early evening so no problem
Oct - 3 saturdays in a row, long days out
Nov - quiet
Dec - 3 saturdays in a row, all day again

H made the point that these were only the very important matches - there are more, but he'll limit it to only the really crucial ones. i.e. think I'm supposed to feel grateful at that concession!

So I made the point calmly, that I felt 3 saturdays in a row was unreasonable. Big sigh from H, not happy. So in the interests of avoiding an argument, I said I didn't want to discuss it anymore but would leave him to think about which he would choose because I felt 3 in a row, over 2 months, were too many. I got some 'it's like living in a big brother state' comment which I ignored.

I would like to see myself as a laid back partner, not controlling, happy to give my partner personal freedom etc. But I'm clearly not that laid back as I do end up resentful each year and feel a bit taken for a ride. BUT this equality thing I'm now trying, is not easy and I can see there being an argument tonight over it. I got a very cursory kiss goodbye this morning from H so I think he's smarting from what he'll see as me being controlling.

What d'you think?

I couldn't be more on your side if I tried! I both sympathise and empathise.

I assume he is playing games rather than watching them? You see, whilst I do see your POV, I also know that teams do want/need regular commitment from players. DH plays in 2 teams during the week and I know that he only gets to keep his place if shows up regularly.

You say your kids are 9 and 5 - so how old is he? In other words, for how many more years will he be playing football on a weekend? I am witnessing my DH's joints falling apart (knees, hips - I just need someone to inflict a nasty ankle injury for him to finally give it up ), so I know it's probably short term.

Most committed amateur football players seem to 'downgrade' to mid-week evening 5-a-side fixtures when they get near 40 - is that an option for your DH?

I have a similar bugbear to you, though, in that my DH watches Premier LEague football fixtures throughout the season. He's out all day (10am-9pm), as there's a fair bit of travelling. I do resent it.

I have a lot of sympathy, and speak from personal experience here...I am a sports widow for a significant chunk of the year.

In the past, I?ve found it endlessly frustrating and have wound myself up into massive knots about it, but have tried really hard over the last few years to get it into perspective.

DH doesn?t have anything else that takes him away from the family, apart from work commitments (which are obviously different). He doesn?t go out several nights a week drinking with friends, he doesn?t vanish off to visit friends in far flung places. Sport is what he does ? it makes him happy, and it?s his way of relaxing. I go out a lot more during the week ? to the cinema, for a quick drink with friends, to a class or lecture. We have different approaches to "me time".

So as far as possible, we try and find a balance.

We have a rule that sports fixtures have to go into the family calendar - if they aren't there, and I fix up something else (either as a family or just me) it takes priority.

I try and arrange stuff for the days he's away that make my life easier - like going to visit my parents (I realise that may not be everyone's idea of easy!) or having friends over. I used to avoid asking people to do things ? I assumed that they would want to spend family time together, but actually a lot of my friends who work all week are very keen to see us at weekends as it?s the only time they get to do that. So a friend and I might take all the dcs to the zoo, or we?ll go to the cinema or something.

If he?s out on a Saturday, we?ll do something as a family on the Sunday. If he?s around for the whole weekend, I might meet a friend for lunch, or go for a cycle or something leaving him with the dcs. I also go away for a couple of weekends each year with friends. But I've never tried to equate his time with my time - not sure how that would work. I don't know whether one long Saturday equals three afternoons, or what the equation would be.

I don't know about the "three in a row" thing - dh wouldn't do that unless it was something pretty extraordinary (FA Cup final, Champions League, last game of the Premiership, for instance). I would be annoyed with that, I think, but if there was then a really long period without anything, would probably be fine with it as that's just the way fixture lists work.

I would also say that a weekend away, even if it doesn't happen often, is very different from several separate days away. I find the prospect of a weekend on my own with the dcs much harder than a series of Saturdays. If you're having whole weekends away, doesn't that offset what he is doing?

Sorry, it IS watching football rather than playing. I thought I'd seen that in the OP, but was persuaded otherwise by other posts.

Is the home ground local to you?

Why can't you and the children go orienteering and leave him at home?
If he just watches football then I wouldn't describe that as him being sporty, I'd presumed he played.
If it's his hobby and he's always done it though then it seems a shame to stop him doing it when you aren't actually wanting to go out anywhere in particular. Go out orienteering, once you get good at it you do it individually anyway so him not going might be handy as you could leave the youngest kid with him and take the older one who'd be old enough to go round on their own eventually. If the younger one wants to come then you'll need 2 of you so that one of you stays with him whilst the other goes round the course.

OK maybe you're right over. I should just accept he has different needs to mine - he needs more time away from demands of home life than I do.

He does ask me to go to matches but I don't have any interest. So why on earth I think he should be interested in running up and down some muddy hill in hiking boots, in the rain and wind is beyond me! Of course, he is just not interested. Fair enough.

Maybe I should join the club with the kids and go on our own as they can't wait to go and would love it. I just don't want to feel our paths are going in different ways, that's all.

perhaps that is part of the equation then... acceptingthat this is just a timing issue in part, and looking forward to when you get all the home game days all to yourself to do what you want in a few years when he starts taking both of them.

DD started going at five. Initially she was fascinated for the first half, enjoyed the entertainment and chips at halftime and was then a bit bored.
We started packing her DS and talking to her about the fact that occasionally you have to put up with being bored.

She is nearly 8 and watches the whole matches now.

I understand now that your problems is more about the taking the whole day to travel and drink for the away games...
I get that with DH playing cricket in the summer which is all farking day even if it is a home game.
But I know he loves it so I wouldn't interfer.

I get other parents to help out with activities and then on weekends when DH is at home he happily does the activity taxi

its great that you love your kids, but erm...can't you find something just for yourself?

Oh thanks everyone. You're all very good to reply.

Yes, he watches, not plays now after injuries of his own. It makes him happy to follow his team and he has little else except work and family, so I am glad of it in a way.

Don't think rebecca that I'll ever get good enough at orienteering to need childcare! I am so not sporty, but just love the idea of a family activity that is good exercise and having boys who love mud, running and other kids, I thought this would be ideal.

Balance is what we need - I can see that. And enough time from him, for family/me so that I don't feel resentful in him taking his own time.

I don't know custardo about something that's just for me? I feel busy enough as it is, with work, exercise, few local friends, few far away friends. Not sure I've got time for much more.

Yes, maybe this is a phase thing that I just need to sit tight with. DSs will both be going soon.

I like the idea of finding a friend to go orienteering with. And just doing more myself so I don't feel as resentful. I hate the tit for tat thing, I just hate feeling this controlling, but hard to see a way out when faced with H feeling resentment of his own! Thanks all.

Agree I'd be making him doing the ferrying about on the Saturdays he is there and telling him you need to cook or something, or just that it's his turn.

So, out of interest, how did things go last Sept/ Oct/ Nov ?

I'm not a football fan, so have no time for those who will follow their club to the end of the earth like groupies after a pop band...

If he's going to be out for as much as 30 hours in both October and December, then you should at the very least consider getting 60 hours to yourself (and if not 6x 10 hours, maybe 6x 6-8 hours depending on what spare time friends of yours have, so you could explore some shops/ visit the cinema, and end up with a meal, and chat).

Get a couple in during September, then 1 in October, another 2 in November and a pre-Christmas extravaganza in December...

While I appreciate you can cope better with DC it'll do DH no harm to act as taxi driver and cook a few times... he can relax again on the Sundays after these 'exertions', unless he has ever suggested family outings...

I don't think you're being unreasonable, nor controlling, but just looking for a bit of equality in caring for your DC, and being able to have 'me time' to not go mad!

You certainly don't deserve to be "walked over" which is how past years seem to have been, for you.

Thanks Network. I'm worried now that I am controlling, when I've always thought he was the controlling one in the relationship! Mad, how this analysis goes.

Last autumn was a disaster. I didn't say how much his trips bothered me, he didn't listen to what little I did say, but just belittled my comments and we ended up in a right old mess. I think my love for him has not fully recovered and he is no 'sensitised' to my unhappiness so we can't discuss this without being close to arguing.

So that is why I am trying to be more assertive - if I don't assert myself clearly, I don't give him a chance to hear/understand me and thus don't give him a chance to meet my needs. Think that's the way to go.

As you can hear, I'm really shaky about this. I think he is controlling generally in our relationship, as I said, so I'm practising asserting myself to see if we can stay together with a more even balance of power. With an already assertive woman, like your typical MNer!, I'm sure he'd be fine, but he has relaxed into my lack of assertiveness and got used to be in control and I feel he now takes the piss. Got worse since children, but before that I was always busy doing my own thing, so him being busy too didn't matter.

Sorry to go on now, just starting this thread has really got me thinking. Am very envious of people who can manage this negotiation without stress, so I just want to try other people techniques and see if they work for us.

I can see what you're saying lenin, and I don't want to do a 'yes, but....' thing as I get frustrated with people who do that to my suggestions,

but, he does weekends himself whenever the need arises or weekdays when I have to travel for work which are usually 6am starts, home 9pm. So he does it often enough to cope, and to know how stressful he finds it.

My problem with your suggestion is also that I don't really want us to go off in different directions, having little family time together. Like I recently got fed up waiting for a 'free' weekend to take the kids on a city break - they really wanted to go to a particular UK city and stay in a hotel one night, and so did I, but H couldn't seem to commit to the time. Football seemed to be on whenever it was mentioned. So eventually I did it on my own with the boys, we had a great 2 days, exploring this city on trams on our own, never having been before. They were fab company. But it was a bit lonely not having him there, not having him interested.

I don't really want all the time off this equality idea gives me. I just want my 1 weekend and lots of little bits throughout the term - meals out midweek with friends/cinema that sort of thing.

OP I think the whole point here is that you feel that your DH is still living like a bachelor.
Your argument, I feel, is not so much about you having time to pursue a hobby, but that he does not seem to make any time for you all as a family unit.
You suggested a sport that you could all do on Sundays which he pooh poohed. I don't think you especially want to do THIS activity, you just want to do ANY activity where you are spending time together as a family.
My DH spends ALL Saturday watching TV. Build up to thew matches, commentary on the matches, reveiws of the matches, etc. I take the kids to my mum's cos otherwise, he just shuts himself in the living room (basically we end up living in the kitchen on Saturdays as he EXPECTS silence). You can't expect that with young children.
It makes it worse because its in winter so we can't even bugger off to the park.
On Sunday he plays golf all day. Weekends are supposed to be for family time...you choose to have kids, you spend free time with them.
I like you am pissed that my DH does not spend time with his kids at weekend but chooses to live the single life.
Yes I could nag and put my foot down. But I want him to want to be with his family, not to have to nag him to do it.
Men...pretty crap really.