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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Help just need support because he's messing with my head

52 replies

womblingfree1970 · 08/08/2010 14:04

For those who haven't read my other thread.Recently told my abusive H that I want a divorce.

So next he rings me saying he doesn't want one.But then in the same conversation denies even saying that.

well more has happened since

I dropped kids off to his yesterday and he starts telling me how he can't be with me because of all the things I've said over the last few days.

Because I told him he's still abusive and also that if he really cared about his kids he wouldn't abuse their mother.He now says because I've said all that it shows him how much I resent him so he can't stay with me.

he says I don't take responsibilty for anything and that I don't except blame.I know all this is not true.The logical side of me knows this but the emotional side is starting to have doubts.

help

OP posts:
Anniegetyourgun · 08/08/2010 23:49

Well... great... he can't be with you, that's another thing you can agree on isn't it? Try that with a bright smile. Maybe he'll agree to share the costs.

He'll say something quite different in a day or so, anyway. Try not to let it get to you.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 09/08/2010 00:47

He is right that he can be with you because of the things you have told him i.e. the truth

"... I want a divorce from you because you are and always will be an abusive and manipulative twat..."

He can't be with you because you have seen him for the vicious little bully that he is.

Trust yourself and your judgement. He just can't stand the fact that you have broken free and made decisions without him. I wouldn't even fob him off with a vague agreement I would say something completely neutral like "you are free to think what you like" or "well that's your opinion". It might be worth trying the broken record technique of mechanically repeating these responses to every comment he makes so he doesn't have a hook to try and drag you into an argument.

You will never make him see your point of view because he doesn't think you have a right to a separate point of view and of course he blames you because he is perfect Hmm so you must be wrong; it couldn't possibly be his omnipotent self who was the total fuck up!

Keep believing in yourself you are doing the right thing.

thesunshinesbrightly · 09/08/2010 00:50

Shock what a funny little man,he sounds.

Your well rid. Keep remembering that.

SolidGoldBrass · 09/08/2010 01:14

He's a knob. Justremember that, every time he starts havinga pop at you, he's a knob. Please don't waste any energy trying to find the way to explain to him how much he has hurt you. He KNOWS. And he carries on doing it because HE WANTS TO. It makes him feel good to make you cry. As others have said, just stonewall him with 'Yeah, whatever' when he starts, and smile patronizingly before walking away. If you like, stop contact with him except for things relating to access/sorting out the legal aspects of divorce. He's dumped therefore he doesn't matter any more.

womblingfree1970 · 09/08/2010 09:31

Ye sI think you are all right I've got to stop letting him get to me.He's still trying the mindgames stuff.Trying to make me doubt myself and feel that I'm totally to blame for the breakdown of the marriage so that I start begging for forgiveness.

I'm trying to keep communication to just the children but like yesterday when I was talking to him about our eldest hee starts telling me about a car he's going to buy.I listen and as soon as he's finished continue to talk about our kids.I know he'll see that as wrong(as he will say I show no interest in him).But I don't want to talk about that and get drawn in.

OP posts:
ItsGraceActually · 09/08/2010 12:25

Correct! Why the bloody hell would you show an interest in him? Another prompt for "yes, that's true goodbye", methinks Grin

womblingfree1970 · 09/08/2010 12:46

Help

So since dropping kids around and H telling me why he can't be with me I've not chased etc and not been drawn in.
So now I've just got a text saying

'do you feel you are in a place now where you'll be able to talk about some of our issues.If so would you like to talk this evening on the phone'.WTF

.

I ask for divorce.few days later he tells me why he can't be with me and now this.

Its as if the last statement he made to me never happened he'completely ignored everything

OP posts:
ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 09/08/2010 13:16

Don't do it. Either don't respond at all or go back with something stonewalling like "I don't thing that its appropriate to have such a discussion at the moment". If he rings anyway tell him its not convenient and hang up then don't answer the phone again. I suspect there is one of two things going on here either

  1. He is flipping into the "being nice" phase to try and convince you that your concerns are unjustified etc and reel you back in or 2)He is trying to get under your guard to start minimising your concerns with some heavy duty gaslighting.

He is trying to get control of the situation back. However, the one thing you can control is the amount you engage with him. Keep your distance and keep contact to the bare minimum necessary for the kids. He hasn't changed his abusive behaviour simply his abusive tactics. Keep your distance and trust your judgement. His behaviour is confusing and unsettling because he is trying to confuse and unsettle you. He knows he is messing with your head because he is intentionally messing with your head.
Did I mention the bit about keeping away from him and not engaging!

ItsGraceActually · 09/08/2010 13:16

Fucking crackpot.

Suggested response: "As I've already explained, I am keen to discuss our divorce. Please make any queries you may have in writing."

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 09/08/2010 13:18

ItsGrace - I like that suggested response

SolidGoldBrass · 09/08/2010 14:18

I suggest you text him back along the lines of 'This relationship is over. You will be hearing from my solicitor. I will not be engaging in any further discussion of the relationship.' ANd every time he starts trying to harass you, repeat the message. A complete blank wall is the only way to deal with people like this (and, enjoyably, it drives them FUCKING MENTAL). But the thing to remember is, you have EVERY RIGHT to refuse any discussion with him and to cut him out of your life. He;s a knob and therefore his opinions of you and your behaviour are totally irrelevant and unimportant.

ItsGraceActually · 09/08/2010 15:40

SGB, did you finally get rid of your mad Web-stalker?

MorrisZapp · 09/08/2010 15:57

This reminds me of the line on Oprah Winfrey: 'do you want peace, or do you want to be right?'.

I think that from what you've said, it's unlikely/ impossible that your DH will say yes it's his fault that your marriage has broken down.

But what you really want from him now is not validation, it is a divorce.

He will almost certainly blame you throughout, and continue to level various accusations at you. But these are now irrelevant, as you no longer want to be in a relationship with him.

You can be right in the eyes of your friends, your family, your children etc, but you will have to accept that he will never tell you that you are right. That is exactly why you are divorcing him.

MadAboutQuavers · 09/08/2010 16:33

Wombling - I'm afraid he sees you as weak and suggestible, and that you don't mean what you say.

He doesn't believe you want a divorce, and when he sees you wavering when he does the gaslighting/headfuck thing to you, he thinks it's only a matter of time before he can confuse you enough to make you beg to have him back or gratefully work on the issues between you.

He sees your emotion in your previous conversations over the past week or so as evidence that, really, you don't want to lose him at all.

I'm sorry if this seems a bit harsh and direct, but he's so used to running the show and for only his needs to be taken into consideration, I believe this is what he thinks.

I think you need to be truly and fundamentally honest with yourself. Do you really want to work on this relationship? If you could "wave a magic wand" and make him stop the abusive behaviour, would you be so grateful and happy to have him back? Because that's how you're coming over to him, and that's why he doesn't believe you. He knows that, deep down, you still want him.

Again, I'm sorry to seem harsh - I just think you need to face this honestly.

ItsGraceActually · 09/08/2010 18:32

Fair point above.

Another way of looking at it: You seem to be trying to have a nice divorce. Forget it. Only a very well-balanced couple with no outstanding baggage can manage that. Your H will never qualify as well-balanced, and there's no shame in being slightly baggage-laden yourself. It's normal during divorce!

Just get on with it :)

Afterwards, you can get yourself on the Freedom programme and/or some therapy to help you deal with lingering issues (I suspect, with your H, there will be some of those.) Meanwhile, don't forget to focus on yourself for a change. Have treats, get new clothes & haircut, re-contact old friends and eat lovely food. Consider re-awakening old interests & hobbies. Watch funny films. Smile at your reflection!
Cheers Grin

womblingfree1970 · 09/08/2010 19:43

MadAboutQuavers

You aren't be harsh at all just honest.Which is what I want.

So thank you you are right about how he can see the emotions when we have conversations.You are right that if I could wave a magic wand and stop the abusive behaviour there just might be hope.Although I cannot say whether it could work and that I could forgive him for everything.

So no none of what you said was harsh.

All I ever wanted was for him to stop so that we could have a happy home but because he won't I have no choice but to divorce him.

OP posts:
MadAboutQuavers · 09/08/2010 20:24

We're all with you Wombling and you've come so far in dealing with this arsehole up to now.

Thing is though, when/if you tell him the above - that you just want him to be reasonable and loving - he's so warped and manipulative that all he'll hear is "I knew it, she still wants me, I just have to figure out a way of tricking her so I get back in where I belong and can rule the roost again." Not exactly, obviously, but you get the gist....

You can't change him, and you can't quite accept that you can't, I think.
As far as he's concerned, he owns you. Don't let him, you're worth better.

womblingfree1970 · 09/08/2010 20:50

'You can't change him, and you can't quite accept that you can't, I think.'

MadAboutQuavers

I hope you don't mind me saying but thats something I have to disagree with you on. I used to think I could change him.All the thoughts of if I understand him more,if I do this or that.

That changed a little while back(with counselling) when I realised the only person who could change him was himself.That actually me being around was his anchor to keep thinking what he was doing was O.K.

He already knows that all I ever wanted was for him to stop and get help.Said it so many times.

The fact is my actions are what matters now.I'm going to be true to myself.If he won't change than I have no choice but to divorce him.

I replied to the text saying we both know where we stand and that I only want to communicate about the children.I then got a call saying he's going to get help.We'll see.He also admitted I,m not the problem,he is.I'm not getting drawn into it anymore.I reitterated that I only want communication with regards to the children.That I have to put my children and me first.

OP posts:
secretskillrelationships · 09/08/2010 21:32

It is really hard to change your reactions to what is going on - it took me literally years to really see the dynamic in our relationship. And once I did, it escalated quite quickly, so be warned.

However, the first step is to recognise what is happening. You can't change your reaction until you recognise the behaviour and the triggers. He knows you very well and know exactly which buttons to push. This means that when you stop reacting to one strategy he'll try another.

Eventually, my ex accused me of being a bad mother. That was his big mistake. Not because I think I am a particularly good mum but because I, personally, think that saying this is below the belt and I started to recognise that maybe this wasn't all about me, it wasn't all my fault. I started to take a step back and watch his behaviour. I tried the stuck record approach and watched what happened. I tried to be the observer and act like my own therapist.

I found the thing that helped me most was to give myself a break - rather than feel angry with myself because I let a discussion turn into an argument, I started to try to recognise when I had reacted but also what I had reacted to. You only react to things that you already feel uncomfortable about.

I found out that what pushes my buttons, which include things like being unreasonable and irresponsible, so these are things he tends to suggest either covertly or overtly.

It took ages. At first, I managed to resist the first one or two things he tried to get me to react to. But he just raised the stakes. I'd react, and off we went again with me being over-emotional etc etc. But it got easier, I learnt to use different approaches. If I found myself reacting, rather than feel bad about it and myself, I learnt to say 'I feel very angry at the moment, I need some time to calm down and we can talk later.'

Of course, he would accuse me of not liking criticism, of walking away. But, because I was being honest with myself, I could see that I was being reasonable - it isn't reasonable to continue a discussion when you want to scream at the other person. If he was starting to shout, I would say 'I don't want to continue with you shouting at me, I'll talk to you later, when you've calmed down.'

He had to work harder and harder to get a reaction out of me. I still wanted the relationship to work so I allowed this to go on. But he started to become physically domineering, get in my face, chase me when I tried to walk away. Which is when I realised that things were never going to work, he didn't want them to.

Now the space helps. I don't react very often and never so that he notices. He still re-writes history and believes that we split because I am so difficult - it's facinating to watch him trying to square that with how I actually behave.

Sorry so long

MadAboutQuavers · 09/08/2010 21:43

Wombling, I'm sorry if I upset you with my comments, not my intention at all.

You are so bang on the money in your last post, I'm full of admiration for you.

I don't think he has a cat in hell's chance of messing with you now, you seem to have put him firmly back in his place - stay strong. X

ItsGraceActually · 09/08/2010 21:46

Some amazing posts on your thread, wombling, you are most privileged!

secrets, it's true about the one thing - the final straw - that jolts you out of your delusion, isn't it? Only a little jolt, usually, but just enough that you can start moving out of that goddamn spiral ... Mine was when X went into another inexplicable rage; I was already frantically asking myself What Have I Done Wrong, when he said I'd never done anything for charity. That isn't a big statement in itself, but it was so utterly far from the facts of my life, it was my jolt.

wombling: "I then got a call saying he's going to get help. We'll see."
No, don't see! Don't care. Re-read your replies above :)

"I'm not getting drawn into it anymore. I reitterated that I only want communication with regards to the children. That I have to put my children and me first."
That's healthier! Good for you Grin

How often do do you stuff just for you, lovely? Just for fun, because you like it?

Aminata100 · 09/08/2010 21:54

So sorry to hear this is happening to you!
It really is insidious, this kind of behaviour, I've been through it myself.

Talking about gaslighting, the term comes from a film about this subject, I saw it years ago and was amazed to find it on Youtube! ("Gaslight 1944" in the search bar).
With Ingrid Bergman and Charles Boyer, black and white, (love those old films!).

It's in about 12 parts, and I had a qlitch at the end but could be my computer!

It was great to see this film, to get an objective view of what it is and be able to say "Yes, I was NOT crazy!!" :)

Also googling the term brings up lots of helpful info about it!

I agree with the others, just don't rise to the bait, try and let it run like water off a duck's back (easier said than done, I know!).

All the best! And don't let that bastard get you down!!

womblingfree1970 · 09/08/2010 22:01

MadAboutQuavers

You haven't upset me at all.Everything you said was fair and honest and I'm happy to hear your thoughts so no need to apologise.

secretskillrelationships

Thanks for your reply.It all helps me to see things straight.

ItsGraceActually

'How often do do you stuff just for you, lovely? Just for fun, because you like it?'

Thats what I'm working on now.

As for the we'll se comment it was more about really not believing a word he says rather than caring.Although on the other hand if he gets the help he needs then he will have a better relationship with his children.

OP posts:
womblingfree1970 · 09/08/2010 22:03

Aminata100

Thanks.

Yes I've googled it and it has really helped me see him and his behaviour for what it is.

OP posts:
ccpccp · 10/08/2010 09:43

OP

You've told him you want a divorce? Well how far along is the paperwork? What steps have you taken to exclude him from your life?

My guess is not far and very few.

Problem is - until you start taking steps, the divorce IS a bluff and he can tie you in knots over it.

So take some action and enforce your decision!