Bit of a long rambled post, but would appreciate any thoughts

[IOnceWasMe]

I am not sure what to make of my marriage. It has always been a bit strained, in my opinion, however DH has always thought we have a good marriage.

There are so many petty little things I could mention as examples of why I am unhappy, but just to focus on one thing, here is a recent discussion we had.

I initiated the conversation because I was upset. Earlier that day I had felt a bit overwhelmed by things (prob because I had only had about 4 hours of broken sleep due to ds waking, and I am also doing my master's dissertation so I am quite stressed in general). I was feeling a bit sorry for myself and having one of those moments when I felt like I couldn't cope and I suppose I just wanted a hug and a bit of support in a 'you're doing well, you can do it' sort of way. Sounds selfish writing it down, but well, that's what I was looking for rightly or wrongly. I tried to tell dh this and he ignored me. We had arranged to go to the park with the dc's. So once we were back home and the time seemed right, I tried again to discuss why I was upset at him ignoring me being upset. The conversation went a bit like this (I have started keeping a diary to try and work out my thoughts and feelings):

I asked why he didn't want to comfort me when I was upset and asked for it.

He replied he didn't want to touch me because he was scared of me and what my reaction would be.

I asked why? He replied it was because apparently a few weeks ago he tried to kiss me goodbye on the bus and I rejected him which made him feel awful in public. I don't remember this at all, he didn't confront me about it at the time, or at any time in the past few weeks to talk about it. If I had done this and understandably hurt him, I would like to know - why couldn't he tell me and then we could have patched things up instead of just assuming that he should then not touch me at all? (if the shoe had been on the other foot, I'd have been texting him as soon as getting off the bus, asking why he wouldn't kiss me!)

When I asked him this he replied 'You must admit you've been stressed this year' and then went on that it was because I do too much and he wouldn't do half of what I do. (For the record, along with my uni work, I do laundry, looking after children, feeding them and very basic cleaning - so the bare minimum really). He then said that it was understandable that I had so much stress and that is just the price the whole family have to pay for me doing my MA.

I agreed that I have been very stressed and I do feel bad about the effect on the family and I am sorry for that.

He then went on about me being blinkered about life (basically we moved last year and I feel very isolated and lonely here so I want to move back to where we were for support network reasons and also financial reasons. There is a long back story here in terms of discussions but the upshot is that we are moving back once I am finished in a month or so) and how I hate where are living now and see the other place as paradise and perfect and I am not open and able to see what the rest of the world has to offer.

I repeated my reasons for wanting to move (just to be clear, his work has an office in both places and he is free to work in either place. I have told him that if it is important for him to stay here, then we could work something out with him working here and coming home at weekends).

He then replied with 'and you always go on about your perfect au pair family and the perfect dad there.' (I was an au pair about 6 years before I met him. About 2 weeks ago he mentioned about someone sweeping the floor everyday saying 'isn't that excessive?' and I told him that when I was an au pair, the dad and I swept under the table every day when we cleaned up after supper).

And then he went on to talk about how he feels awful because I am always miserable around him and never happy, and only happy when I am watching telly, talking to someone else on the phone, reading stuff online etc. It's true - I am more serious around him and I am unhappy in our marriage. I have tried to talk about this but somehow we are bad at communicating and the conversation always goes the wrong way (another reason I have started a diary, to work out what our communication problems are so we can try to resolve them).

He then went on to say that I am a control freak because of a washing up incident. Another back story here! - a few days previously he said he would do the washing up to help me. I had run the dc's bath and was waiting for them to finish watching their cartoon before the bath. It was literally a few plates etc (we had leftovers) so I thought I may as well do it as it would only take 10 minutes max and then it would be done (he was on his laptop so not about to do it). Often when he offers to do the washing up he leaves it for several days and I didn't think it would be an issue if I did it (I honestly was not trying to control him and would have left it if I realised it would offend him if I had done it).

He finished up by telling me that I am aggressive and I shout at the children and he doesn't like it.

I replied to this that it's true, and I feel bad about that and I will try not to because I know it's not fair.

It is true I have been raising my voice with the children recently. It's definitely something I am not proud of and I know it is because I am stressed and over-tired. Whenever I have raised my voice it has been to say things like 'come on' or calling their names (if they are don't respond after me calling them several times) or to break up a fight (as in 'hey stop that'). I have never called them any names when raising my voice as I feel it's important to focus and criticise behaviour rather than the person and if I have raised my voice I have always apologised afterwards and explained it was wrong of me to shout at them and that I am just a bit tired etc. But, I know I need to work on that, and I haven't raised my voice since (my dad used to shout when we were children, so I am trying hard not to repeat that on my children and make it up if I do slip).

We had this discussion after supper, and while the dc's were watching cartoons, so by this time their programme had finished and I needed to do the whole bathtime / bedtime routine. While I was settling the children, dh went to bed himself so I didn't speak to him anymore that evening.

The next day he acted as if nothing had happened and was back to being sweet and caring.

I suppose I am just asking for an outsider's opinion on this sort of conversation, bearing in mind of course that this is just my side of the story. We do seem to have these sorts of conversations a lot, so I am trying hard to look at our relationship and its dynamics as a starting point to try and resolve why I am unhappy about it.

Ok - yes, for some reason I read it the other way!

Yes, it slows everything down. And I don't think it's fair to drag small children shopping if there is an alternative (such as playing at home or in the park with daddy)?

By the way 'right' in the previous post means my 'right' as an individual, the rights that everyone has - not my 'right' as in doing something / being pig-headed simply for the sake of the principle - if that makes sense?

I know, it's difficult isn't it, you don't want to trample all over his feelings. I do get the impression from your various posts that you try very hard to see things from his point of view and to meet him half-way wherever possible. You're doing some of the things you want/believe in, so you do have the strength to stand up for yourself when it really matters. But you're doing all the running, all the compromising, all the giving or withholding, soaking up pretty much all the sacrifice and inconvenience, because you don't want to be a ball-breaking bitch. In that respect he's right when he says you do too much; you're doing all the emotional hard work in the relationship as well as more than your fair share of the physical, and an MA too! No wonder you're stressed.

I don't think a counsellor should tell you what it's reasonable for you to demand from your partner in terms of shopping rights, childcare, getting home in time for the football etc, as such. In a normal healthy relationship you'd negotiate these details between you. Everyone is going to have a slightly different view on what's reasonable anyway, from their own different experiences and natures, but with good will and good communication on both sides it is possible to keep both parties satisfied. If only one party wants to be reasonable while the other one wants what they want, though, it all falls down horribly.

What a counsellor may be able to do, though, is show you how to work out what you believe is reasonable, and methods for putting it to DH in order to get him listening and negotiating. With any luck you'll get one good enough to also tell you to run for the hills if your H is an arse who will never get it in a million years, though I don't think they're actually supposed to do that...

I don't think coming from an intrusive/controlling/clingy family is a good enough excuse for behaving that way. Someone like that, who then got into a relationship with somebody with more usual expectatios, would recognise the need to compromise. They'd also take on board the benefits of split responsibilities: if you divide the tasks, you can get twice as many done!

I can see how a person may not recognise this without help. It sounds as though his birth family has no concept of personal boundaries: almost as if they are all part of the same person. As a matter of interest, do they ever express this verbally? My mum, for example (she's boundary-less), says things like "At our age" when talking to my sister & me and persists in assuming our likes & dislikes are the same as hers.

All the same, one would expect that after a little while in the 'normal' world, family members would get the picture and make the necessary adjustments for other people's boundaries - or find similar partners, blending their families into one big termite colony

Your H seems to have taken on board the big decisions - or were these discussed as joint decisions, so your MA is something you're doing as a unit, iyswim? But either he's got nowhere at all with the concept of everyday individuality, or he has rather creepy controlling tendencies. The two aren't mutually exclusive - control is all about disrespecting the target's boundaries - but the underlying nature of it could be factor in how to handle it (or, indeed, whether to handle it at all.)

Not asking you to consider this right now, btw - you've got a masterpiece to write (literally ) Just adding a couple of thoughts to your 'journal' here, for later reference if you want it :)

Hi - just wanted to come back on briefly!

I just sort of vanished before, sorry, but thanks again for all your messages. Everything is hold at the moment (made much easier by staying with my parents!) but I will definitely be coming back to this thread once things have settled down a bit, if that's ok. I haven't actually thought much about everything relationship-wise since coming here

My dissertation is going well. I have literally been able to bury myself in it which is great. My parents have a good garden, so the dc's spend most of the day outside (instead of our cramped flat where outside means packing everything up and going to the park) and I can join them for a run around when I have a break. My parents have been great, taking care of the domestic side so I don't have to think about any of that. One week to deadline, still have a lot to do, but I will get there!

Hi, glad to hear you're getting on ok, and do please give updates. Your parents sound great. Only trouble is, you won't want to go back...