Why is my dh such a prick?

[Tinykins]

We have been going through a bad patch.Waiting on counselling at the moment. We had decided to tentatively go out for dinner tomorrow night and try and start talking through things.

Then a couple who we are friendly with texted last night to invite us to go out for dinner with them for the guys birthday. I thought about it, and given that things are still strained and we are on a truce, I said to my dh this morning before he left for work that I felt we should leave it and not go out with them.

I felt him bristle at that, and he sighed and said in a resigned voice "well it's totally up to you, your call." I said what about you, do you want to go? He got sort of ittitated and said stuff like, well its a "shame" that we have to be letting down our friends" and a "shame" that we cannot go out on a saturday night and enjoy ourselves, etc all said with this kind of annoyance and resigned sigh as if it is all down to ME that we find ourselves in this predicament.

I then said to him that he seemed a bit annoyed about it, and did he want to actually go out tonight? Then he spoke to me very crossly, raised his voice, saying stuff like "As usual I have no control over how you interpret how it talk...I dont give a fuck what we do tonight..etc etc just think it is a shame this is the way things are etc etc

And I felt upset for several reasons. Firstly the real Shame is that our marriage has got to this state. Secondly, he ALWAYS does this. He gets angry with me, I ask him why he is angry, he ANGRILY denies that he is angry instead insisting that it is my oversensitive INTERPRETATION of his tone, (this drives me MAD that he wont even admit to his own anger) and then he flounces off to work telling me that this row is going to hang over him all day and ruin his day, (And of course this is all my fault)

Someone please tell me that this is not normal interaction and it there is some bloody book out there that can help me understand what the hell is wrong with my dh and why he gets so angry but then gets even angrier when this is pointed out to him, and why he hurts and upsets me and then goes around as it it is all my fault! Please help.

Your DH is terrible at communicating! But there is a hint that he cares and wants to make it work. Also I think that it may be a good idea to go out with friends. Sometimes going out with friends relaxes you and helps to nourish your relationship.

Why is my dh such a prick? Back the truck up!!

This does contrast sharply with your expression and impression of being fair, balanced and patient in wishing to 'sort out' your interpersonal difficulties. These bad situations don't just arise - they have a chronic pattern. As a starting point I would suggest you do some thinking, and differently, about how you see your dh. If you advertise him as a prick then perhaps it's you that needs to change.

My DH is like this whenever we fall out.

I do love him dearly, but also would advertise him as a prick. This is because when he acts like this, he is a prick.

We are slowly getting through it and whoever said it was due to not understanding his own emotions was spot on.

I did have to change the way I was reacting to him and up to now it seems to be working.

My theory is his mother has treated him like an object of hers (and still tries) so he has never had to work out anything for himself as she was always there, ready to control the situation.

I have to go and drop DD1 off for a disco (do they call it that now?), but will be back soon.

EdwardC - Thanks, yes, he was being a prick and he really upset me, and I do agree also with Beanlets thoughts but as was said upthread, that is not much use if he does not acknowledge that the other emotion and just continues telling me that I am the problem, that I am the over sensitive one.

I wish I could change how I react to this and intend to buy the recommended books and try to change MYSELF, because that is all I can do.

He came in at lunchtime, told me I had "2 minutes" of his time as he summoned me into our sitting room and told me that "just to be clear, in going forward" it was not his fault that we were not going out tonight," when I pointed out his text, he brushed that aside saying he had sent that because he felt that we would have a crap night out because of me, that he really DID want to go, but that i made things too difficult and too complicated, to have a good time.

Then, when he had me in tears, and when I tried to leave the room, he held his arm across the door and demanded that I give my side of things, despite the fact that I was too upset to talk.

Whatever way you look at it, he is being a total prick, and I he should not trat me like this.

This relationship is on the rocks. He should know he is being manipulative and that really this cannot go on. You are both unhappy. Does he still love you? Does he have someone else? Does he want this marriage to end? You need to ask him this. Arguments are rarely about what they seem to be about. Nevertheless, it's possible for relationships as low as this to be turned round and for both parties to be happy again

From your last post, he is definately being a prick.

Can you arrange to go out on your own with some friends tonight?

Sod the counselling, start building a life of your own.

Ouch! That was horrid of him.

I'm so sorry Tinykins, go out with the friends without him? LOL

You need to find your backbone again and not crumple under him but stand up for yourself and make it clear he cannot speak to you and make you feel this way.

Do you think if you wrote it all down, he'd read it? Or is this a bad idea?

Teaandcakes - I'd love to write it all down but right now, I just dont have the energy. We have 5 kids under 10, and life is busy. I booked the babysitter and decided that we were going out anyway, because an evening with good friends was FAR preferable to spending the night in with him and the awful atmosphere.

PinkGrapefruitjuice - I very much agree with your sentiment. I think that counselling has nothing to offer us, (certainly whilst dh refuses to accept he has any issues) and think that I need to start living my own life, of course with all the little ones it is not so easy at the mo, but when the youngest starts school, then I am going to go back to work, and once I have that bit of independence, then who knows.

LikeGarlic - I do hope that you are right. Otherwise I do not see us together in 5 years time. Sometimes, I really wish he would just leave, but he will never to that.

Good for you!
If he decides not to go make sure you go anyway and let him cancel the babysitter
hope you have a good night xx

i'm sorry,

but i dont feel this is all your dh problems with communicating.

when you are trying to discuss with him you have described 2 scenario's in this thread. one where you are telling him how he is feeling. i.e angry. yet as another poster points out,you have no idea if anger was his emotion. it may well have been disappointment, sadness, resentment at missing a night out with friends. why not ask him before telling him.

in the second scenario where he came to have a conversation with you, you broke down into tears and tried to run off?

is this what happens regular?

you are either confrontational with him, or start crying? how old is youngest dc? are you still waiting on the hormones settling?

yes... i agree he is poor at communicating also.but it's a bit harsh to call him a prick.

also... something that is niggling at me here?did you actually discuss if you were going to go to the party? did you agree to it in first place, then decide for both of you that you weren't going as you had decided you didn't want to. or was he fully involved in discussing if you weren't and whether or not you cancelled if you changed your decision to go?

INeed - Last week, because of all the recent rows, he very clearly stated to me that he did not want us to go out with any friends or have anyone round until we were back on an even keel again. No social life until we were getting on again behind closed doors.

That was only last week. So when we got this invite yesterday for tonight, I showed it to him and he shrugged and said it was up to me. He didnt speak to me for the evening and I eventually went to bed.

Got up this morning and because of his mood last night I said, "look, I suppose we should leave this thing tonight and not go out, what do you think?" And it degenerated from there.

Fine, if i misinterpreted his frustration or disappointment as anger I will hold my hands up on that one. But my dh wont even admit to what it is he IS feeling, just saying that it is my fault that he speaks to me the way he does.

As far as dissolving into tears goes, he comes into the house, summonses me into a room, talks at me for 5 minutes, then when I try and respond constantly interrupts me, and threatens to walk out when i say the wrong thing, and then finally tells me that I am the reason we are not going out, that I am complicating everything, and you know what, the combination of the strain of his continual anger (or whatever emotion is coming out as anger) plus not being allowed to talk, then being accused of somthing I know is untrue and unfair, well it all just gets on top of me and yes, I have that pathetic response of bursting into tears, so what, I am weak, pathetic, probably yes, or maybe just so fucking tired of living with someone who is never happy, who frankly is a bully at times, has me living with a knot in my stomach and in my throat, and yet can only see himself as the victim.

Nothing to do with hormones, my youngest is nearly 3.

sounds like passive aggressive behaviour - won't take responsibility for his decisions, or his behaviour, claims not to be angry but clearly is, making everything your fault, acting like a martyr ....

Look it up on the web! Not that easy to deal with, there's some tips out there though. But very, very frustrating to have to deal with someone like that ...

I want to send you a ((hug)) Tinykins

Read that Lundy Bancroft book. I really hope as I keep saying that this time the marriage counseling will be a success.

It maybe worth writing things down you do want to share with him, so you remember to say them. I have trouble thinking clearly and can get upset and the notes help me if it is really important. You could take turns to hold a wooden spoon or something and only the person holding could talk?

I'm speaking in present tense but I'm actually alone parent now as my H and I separated in October but for very very different reasons.

Thinking of you, hope tonight goes well (it is tonight isn't it?) Would a few drinks help mellow you and him and enable you both to laugh?

Thank you teaandcakes for the kind words.

They are very good friends we are meeting tonight and I will enjoy seeing them. DH will enjoy seeing them too. We will have a few drinks, and hopefully things might soften, it is also likely though that when we get home, he will withdraw into himself and turn on the tv, leaving me to go to bed on my own.

I will start to write things down. I really think that would help me clarify my thoughts.

SixesandSevens - I have long thought that he is PassiveAgressive and his mum is very passive agressive too and it drives him mad, but he doesnt see that he is exactly the same. I will see what is out there in terms of dealing with this behaviour.

Dh also has a weakness towards alcohol, having abused it badly in the past and now has it under control, apart from the odd lapse. I think the strain of controlling this urge makes him very frustrated and angry.

Just my theory, it could be rubbish, but thats what I believe.

why didn't he want to see friends till on an even keel?

is there issues involving friends coming over too often for his liking?

or do you argue more when with friends?

fwiw, i think he's been pretty sensible saying no friends till your on an even keel if he has a genuine reason that it will help.

he said that. then one week later you are telling him about an invite to friends. he says its up to you as he has already say no friends till on even keel are his wishes. but, leaving you to decide if you would like to stick to this (as you had previously agreed) or break this arrangement so you can see friends on that night.

i'm not saying either of you is right/wrong about how this handled. i can see it from his perspective though.

you and he agreed no more friends till even keel.

and within a week you are wanting to break that agreement.

but i would ask for more details on why no friends? is it a control thing. how often do you do friends things compared to things alone?do the rows occur when friends involved, etc?

I'm a bit hesitant to write this, because you're clearly upset and pissed off, and I don't want to make it worse, but sometimes offering a different perspective can be helpful.

With the invite scenario, what was it that you wanted? What did you want to achieve? He had already said that he didn't want to go out with friends; quite openly. Did you want to go? Was that what you would like to have happened?

If you had phrased it differently, you may have got a different reaction. If you had said: "I think we could do with a night out, and I would like to go, so I will arrange it."

That is stating your needs quite clearly. Rather than trying to work out what he wants and then he can respond to that.

Clear communication (I want, I need, I would like) leaves less room for the other person to feel as though they are being manipulated and put upon.

I can see why he thinks you are trying to get at him. I'm sure you thought you were being conciliatory and giving, but he probably heard it as blaming and nagging. His reaction is absolutely not right, but it is quite illuminating as to the dynamics of your relationship.

I hope you get to counselling soon. Please try not to go into it with the expectation that it will fail because it is all his fault. Communication problems, (not abuse) are never only one person's fault.

• Don't get mad. If you become angry, then the passive-aggressive person has already won. His indirect, behind-your-back attack is nearly impossible to prove, but your honest and outright natural response can be easily seen. If you blow up, he will paint you as the villian.

• Be direct. Because passive-aggressive people are virtually unable to be open and honest and straightforward, this is exactly the best counter-attack. Confront him earnestly, kindly, and directly. Be bold and strong, but not spiteful. Take the higher road, as much as possible.

• Try to offer facts and proof, whenever you can. Passive-aggression is based on deception. The smiling wolf is really the aggressor, although he may not look like it. Keep a journal of interactions, so you cannot be talked out of your convictions.

Well. We went out last night, had a lovely time with our friends. When we got home, once we were in the door and on our own, dh (at 1.15am) told me he would be staying up to 2am to watch tv. I said it would be nice if he could come up before 2am so we could chat about the night. He said that he didnt think there was much point, but then reluctantly said he would be up in a few minutes. He arrived up to the room at 1.45, by which time I was nearly asleep. I tried to make some conversation, he did not seem to want to talk, then he switched off his lamp and turned his back to me without even saying goodnight or a kiss. I was upset at that, because we have always shared a kiss goodnight, and when I said this to him, he just shrugged it off and kept his back turned away.

Today we are supposed to be going out for a bite to eat and a Talk about the state of our marriage and what we are going to do about it. To be honest I dont know what I am going to say to him because at this stage, I feel very despondent, disheartened and numb.

This morning, he came down, the kids were having breakfast, he never eats a meal with them during the week, as he doesnt eat breakfast, and they have their tea before he is in from work, and in our last counselling sessions it came out that he did not spend really any time with the children and he promised to eat breakfast with them at weekends, but he never really bothers to do this, and today, he just came in, grabbed a couple of bread rolls and the paper and said he was back upstairs to our bed to have his breakfast, (in peace away from the noisy children). I didnt bother saying that he should stay and eat with us, we are his family, they are his kids and need to have that time with him, becuase it would just have started another row.

glad that you are had a good time. spending time with friends often lightens things up.

Have you tried telling each other - without interruption or argument each other's top three things that they want the other to do. Then revisit every other day and then weekly and then monthly. It is a good way of ensuring that each other's perspective and agenda is considered.

T Diddy - We went out for dinner tonight to try and find a way forward.

He feels that our problems are rooted in the fact that I dont like the way he speaks to me, (and he admits that he is often far from ideal in that regard) and more significantly he feels that he cannot meet my expectations, that I expect more of him than he can give.

So I have decided to write a list of my expectations and give it to him and ask him to do just one thing a week on the list, and see how things could improve.

For example on this list would be to show his appreciation of me from time to time with a cup of tea in bed, and unexpected hug or compliment, or just a simple thank you for something I have done for him.

These are things that do not happen in our life at them moment.

I also asked him to do the same for me and that I would try and do whatever he needed me to do.

I then asked him to be honest with me, and I said, "Do you want to be married to me?" He said yes. I said "Why?" and he shrugged and said without meeting my eye, "why wouldnt I?" Then he said well what about you, do you want to be married to me and why?

I gave him the answer that yes, I still wanted to be married to him, becuase despite everything I still loved him and there were many good things about him, and even though we had lost our way, I still wanted to go back to the couple that we used to be, ..then I very annoying started to break down in tears and had to stop talking.

He never answered my question until later on when I pressed him on it. He said very reluctantly that of course he loved me, father of his kids, good homemaker etc but that he did not have my eloquence and could not express himself that way. I replied that it doesnt take much eloquence to say " I love you" to someone, that all Iwanted was honesty, not eloquence.

Now I am in bed, he is downstairs watching tv.We are tired of talking to each other and need some space. I dont know if we are any further forward, but hoping for the best here.

Tiny: I am sure that my DW and I have been in exactly the same place as you at times.....one party has to break the mould and it is good to see you moving in that regard.

How about exercising, jogging, walking together. Or playing tennis or badminton. Sport is a really good way to get back together...to re-bond.

T Diddy - Didnt realise that you were a bloke. Nice to get the man's perspective here.

I think you are right about the sport/exercise thing. I am going to try and get a babysitter in once a week so that we can go for a long brisk walk, that way we are getting exercise but also reconnecting with each other.

It's a start, at least, and I think it would help improve things.

yes, if you can do a little jogg to intensify the exercise that you will benefit from the endorphins the next day. Also fresh air is good. Also, the stronger runner helps the weaker runner along which is part of the bonding. you might even persuade him for you to train together for a 10k run which would be brilliant to do together.

Sometimes we blokes are action oriented/functional. I am ashamed to say that the big bonding moment for me over the weekend was go to buy an iMac - I am now part of the iBrotherhood

there is something sincere and styraightforward about your diligence to your marriage that is heartwarming. i hope that he responds soon....otherwise i will come over and tap him on the shoulder

...sometimes the talking can keep going around in circles and you need to just start doing things to break the downward spiral and to lighten up....good if you can both smart smiling again with each other....maybe flirting again..