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Original poster

Does anyone think that having an affare should be a crime?

132 replies

Wanttofly · 30/07/2010 11:06

It used to be and still is in many countries.

If you stand up and say vows and then lie to the other person and have sex with someone else why is it ok?

The affare hurts the other person more than someone steeling their stuff or taking a car and that is a crime.

So why is it not a crime to break up a family, to make children grow up with only one pereant?

When did it become ok to have an affare?

Sorry for spelling i'm dyslexic

OP posts:
marantha · 30/07/2010 11:40

OP, the law doesn't get involved in people's relationships UNLESS a couple invite them into it via marriage.

Marriage is a declaration to the state that a couple wish to be known as a couple..
If a couple don't wish it, they don't have to marry.

Original poster
Wanttofly · 30/07/2010 11:43

Headbanger - yep i'm dyslexic but i would like to be young [grim]

I'm just immature and need to grow up fast.

OP posts:
Headbanger · 30/07/2010 11:45

I don't know about immature OP - maybe idealistic in some ways?

Is there more to this? Are you speaking from personal experience/hurt? (sorry to pry! God, first I'm rude then I'm nosy )

SolidGoldBrass · 30/07/2010 11:45

Oh FFS. Sometimes when people have sex with someone other than their legal spouse, it's because the legal spouse is a shitbag who deserves it (abusive, an alcoholic/addict or someone who has been refusing sex for years and will not discuss the issue). How would you sort that one out in the criminal courts? Sometimes extra-marital sex is selfish or stupid behaviour, and sometimes it's just the final catalyst that puts an end to a failed relationship. But it's always a matter for the individuals concerned to sort out, not the law.

Original poster
Wanttofly · 30/07/2010 11:46

Yep but i feel so bad about it that i'm not sure if i should talk about it!

OP posts:
Shaz10 · 30/07/2010 11:46

Right now I'd say yes. But then I'm all bitter and twisted.

marantha · 30/07/2010 11:46

People are free to choose:
Marry and face the consequences of a broken contract.

Or remain single/cohabit and, if cohabiting, remain free to split without involving the courts (other than to arrange the splitting of joint assets, of course and child issues, of course).

zazen · 30/07/2010 11:48

Not everyone says vows at their wedding.

I just had to state that I wasn't married and that there was no lawful impediment why I couldn't get married to my now Dh. I had nothing to do with a christian church 'wedding' and all that in sickness and in health love honour and obey palaver.

Having another sexual partner isn't a crime. Things are different in other cultures: Tibetan women for example have many husbands, and property is handed down by the women to their children.

Would you legislate for the world - and what to do with 'offenders'? How anyone handles an affair is up to them - it doesn't necessarily and automatically mean that the 'family' is split up, and that children somehow lose a parent - losing a parent happens only if there is a death AFAIK.

GypsyMoth · 30/07/2010 11:49

what about an emotional affair...or porn webcams,etc....where is the line drawn then?

BaggedandTagged · 30/07/2010 11:50

No. Police have better things to do.

On a legal point, if we're comparing breaking a marriage contract to other types of contract, I should point out that contract law is part of civil law, not criminal law. Breaking a contract is not a criminal offence.

OldLadyKnowsNothing · 30/07/2010 11:50

If having an affair was to be made criminal (because of a breach of contract), would that make sex within marriage compulsory?

BelligerentGhoul · 30/07/2010 11:50

Good God. Would you like us to go back to the times when women couldn't divorce violent husbands, lost custody of their children if the husband got rid of the woman etc etc. What a stupid idea.

cestlavie · 30/07/2010 11:52

Actually, I think it's a very fair question. In response to other comments:

  1. Drawing comparisons with say, Saudi Arabia, are unfair as criminalisation of adultery there is part of a much broader legal and social regime. This is just one specific instance to consider.
  1. It is also unfair to distinguish between 'moral' obligations and 'legal' obligations. Much of our case law and statute law are derived from moral obligations, or rather obligations which exist on individuals vis-a-vis society as a whole. The concept of 'neglect' for example, is as much about a moral obligation as anything else. There are countless other examples.
  1. Being unable to satisfactorily punish the person involved is also irrelevant. If we believe there is a crime then there should be an appropriate sentence. Often sentences have repercussions on other people other than just the individual including often the family of those involved.

There are good reasons why it should be a crime as well, or certainly contains elements of a crime.

  1. The marriage contract is recognised in law. This is a clear breach of the contract
(okay, technically a civil rather than criminal offence but hey!)
  1. An affair necessarily involves deception and, quite possibly, fraud (e.g. paying for a night away in a hotel). Both of which are criminal offences if undertaken versus a third party.
  1. Misrepresentation (okay, again technically a civil offence but can be criminal in certain cases)

I'm not saying I agree incidentally, but just pointing out it's a good question.

AfternoonsandCoffeespoons · 30/07/2010 11:58

Wanttofly are you OK? If and when you do feel ready to talk, there's plenty of people here to listen? I'm guessing you do want to talk about it, else you wouldn't have posted.

OldLadyKnowsNothing · 30/07/2010 11:59

Fraud? How is staying in a hotel fraud?

OldLadyKnowsNothing · 30/07/2010 12:00

Oh, you mean using "family money" to pay for it?

marantha · 30/07/2010 12:00

Marriage is Only a legal contract when all is said and done (the idea that people need to be married to love one another is ludicrous).

So, yeah, infidelity may be an offence in the sense that it is breaking a civil contract and an adulterer may lose their house as a result of it but to make it a criminal offence is un-necessary and serves nobodies interest.

Malificence · 30/07/2010 12:01

A crime, no.
I have always thought however that someone who leaves their family for an affair should lose any rights to the family home and even their children - I'm talking simple adultery in an otherwise "happy" marriage btw.
If people can't stay faithful they shouldn't get married and have a family.

cestlavie · 30/07/2010 12:02

Indeed OLKN.

Fraud has various elements, but certainly it is possible (in law) to embezzle your spouse which is absolutely a criminal offence.

Headbanger · 30/07/2010 12:04

WantTo you should talk about it here - I mean, you are in a roundabout way but you might feel better if you were straightforward. I was about to write 'MN folk are not judgey' but that would be an outrageous lie! You would get some nice help and support though...

OldLadyKnowsNothing · 30/07/2010 12:05

cestlavie, what about lying to your husband about how much your new shoes/dress/hairdo cost? Is that embezzling too?

Rafwife · 30/07/2010 12:08

Good god no.

stubbornhubby · 30/07/2010 12:11

breach of contract isn't a criminal offence, it's a civil matter.

and for a long time in the UK this was exactly how divorce was handled: using a framework of breach of contract, fault, damages, compensation.

so it's not a silly question. Indeed it's only recently that this all changed - so recently many people mistakenly assume something of this still exists and - for instance- imagine that breaches of the marriage contract will lead to higher/lower divorce settlments (You see that not infrequently on MN)

so not it shouldn't be criminal. but it might well be (and has been in the past) treated as a legal matter.

cestlavie · 30/07/2010 12:15

OLKN: clearly it's all degrees, isn't it?

What about if one partner was taking money out of the joint account each month under the pretence of paying a bill and actually stashing it in their own (undisclosed) bank account?

The point is that it is a criminal element in principle.

OldLadyKnowsNothing · 30/07/2010 12:23

Hmm, well that would depend on both partners viewing all money as "family", rather than his 'n' hers. DH and I don't have a joint account and never will, bills get paid by whoever has the money at the time. (No, we're not well-organised, but it's worked for us for over a quarter of a century.) In our case, I don't think we could embezzel from each other.

And if only one party in a marriage regards all money as family money, while the other regards all his/her money as his/hers (this could be higher earner willing to pay all bills and give an allowance to a non-earning partner, or low-earner keeping all wages as his/her "pocket money" because there is a higher earner picking up the bills) where does that one go?

Nah, keep criminal law out of marriage, unless a proper crime has been committed.