Over to the MN Jury...

[KaoticKittty]

I'm a long term lurker and occasional poster.

After reading lots of relationship threads it has made me realise that I have had enough of my emotionally abusive DH and I am currently making plans to leave.

But, I'd like to know whether this specific incident is me being unreasonable or him? I have lost all sense of persepctive now while dealing with my DH.

We have older DCs and my DH suddenly, last year, introduced a rule with no discussion with me that the DCs friends had to be out of the house by 10pm. DCs have pretty much been complying but there are certain circumstances, for example being given a lift home and inviting the driver in for a coffee to say thanks, when the rule has been flouted and DH has caused a scene. As a result the DCs rarely bring anyone home.

Last night a friend of the DCs came to see me (think agony aunt type scenario) and because of various reasons it was 10.30 and the friend was still here. By then a DC had joined us. DH kicked off and everyone left.

Is he being unreasonable or am I? DH is a "functioning alcholic" and was drinking last night, on his own, upstairs. I am sick of being left at least three evening a week on my own while he does this. I do go out when I want (and that was a hard fought battle) but never have people round because I am scared of scenes like this happening. He has been known to stagger downstairs drunk at random times so it is not just after 10pm that he kicks off.

I am sorry that this is so long but I am trying not to drip feed. I know I need to leave but what I want MN jury to decide is if he is reasonable imposing this time limit?

KK - He's an arse and you know it. Sorry.

Having a time limit itself isn't necessarily unreasonable, but the way he behaves when it is stretched and the way it was imposed with no discussion, reasons, etc. is not reasonable. Also, if you feel uncomfortable having friends round yourself in your own home then something is very wrong.

I would suggest that if he's an alcoholic, you probably don't want to put too much faith in ANY of his decisions...

No, he's not reasonable because he is not the only adult in the house. you are entitled to speak to people after 10pm. he does not get to decide how you run your own private time.

He's a dick...........you shouldn't have to worry about having people in your own house.

He's the unreasonable one. He doesn't get to impose rules on you - it would be different if you have jointly decided to apply this rule for your DCs.

You're not at ease in your own home, and that's a sad way to live.

Now I'm crying. Thank you for that, but now I feel a little unfair.

He set the time limit because he doesn't sleep well and cannot sleep if there are people there (even if he can't hear them). But he is not always going to bed/ sleep by 10pm and I am fed up of the blanket rule. In fact when he drinks he frequently stays up much later. Actually, even when he isn't drinking he stays up much later too.

I don't know whether last night he thought that the friend was here to see the DC and therefore he kicked off (at me only)because he thought the DC was disrespecting his rules. So I don't know whether my friends are included in this rule as well. All I know is that I don't invite them because when he is sober, he is sullen and when drunk, unpredictable.

TBH I want to use the scene last night to tell him that he needs to leave which is why I am asking if it is an unfair rule.

Yes, he is being very unreasonable.

And a knob, to boot.

Good luck with your plans.

I think you already know YANBU at all

You know he needs to leave, and you need to be firm. His drinking is upsetting your whole family balance, I am living with an alcoholic so know how you feel. You sound like a lovely mum, don't let him ruin it. X

I'm not sure if using this specific incident is the way to approach it BTW, you will be the one coming across as unreasonable, he needs to know that his behaviour in general is not OK.

has he had any help for his alcoholism?

I do not know how to tell him I want out. Maybe I am being a coward, but I think I need to use an incident as the catalyst to start the conversation. I simply cannot, in cold blood, say it's over.

I could be waiting a long time for another opportunity. And i have had enough now. We have been together over 20 years. I am not physically scared of him just worn out.

No, he won't get help, he still doesn't really think he has a problem.

Sorry this is coming out all muddled. Actually, if I told you some of the things that had happened you would be screaming at me and wouldn't understand at all why i am not taking the final step.

do you think, if he did get help and got over his drinking, there would be a chance for your relationship?

Don't you think the reason you need to use a specific incident to tell him, is that you are not sure of yourself. He is so in control of all the decisions that you are not brave in making one of your own.

In your head you may feel very sure of yourself but you know faced with his level of control and dominance that you may wobble and you will not get the result you want.

What is his defence likely to be?

Will he sneer or laugh you off?
Will he stone wall you?
Will he be aggressive?
Will he become apologetic and manipulative?

Perhaps you could give us an insight to the above and we can help you maintain the upperhand in what you want to do here?

He's being a total arse and is using his sleep "problem" as an excuse for antisocial, controlling behaviour. He is 100% in the wrong.

Try this!
"DH, you're a rude, bad-tempered drunk. Your dictatorial tantrums make everybody miserable. So I'm divorcing you."

Yes, I agree last night's display makes a very good example of what you mean, and a realistic last straw.

I agree with Hobgoblin, it may help to anticipate his reaction (move any breakables out of the way??)

You see this all the time. People put up with untold abuse and crap and then one day a "small" thing tips them over the edge. I think its because the small thing comes at a time when they have finally reached the point when they can take no more.

You have had enough. Your children have had enough. You are not accorded normal freedom and rights in your own home because he is unreasonable because he is an alcoholic and an ars*. That's all the justification you need, if any were needed.

Yes, there is a downside if you peg your leaving to one incident. It's the pattern that's making you leave.

Why do you need to be able to tell him that this incident is the reason? Do you think it will help him to understand? Because it won't. Will it help you to feel less guilty? That's fine if it does - but if you attach too much meaning to this, you might have a wobble later on and think you were over-reacting.

Why don't you write down every incident you can remember that makes you want to leave. You can cite some of the incidents to him to explain, if you want, but more importantly, every time you weaken, go back and read your list.

MMM - he has got so much into the ways of a functioning alcholic, isolation, withdrawal from family life etc. that I can't see a way back. I have tried talking, mainly last year when this all came to a head, but he doesn't want help. He enjoys drinking, he has always put drinking before me and I have lost all respect.

Hobbgoblin - he will be angry at me for breaking the rule, when I say that I have had enough he will be quiet, apologetic and may try (yet again) to stop drinking for a while - he may even make a few months. But overall we will go back to the start eventually.

"will not get the result I want" That is it exactly - I can see it all going on and on and on...

I was in the position to sell the house and use the equity towards a new home, for me and the DCs (which he can also do) but a problem has arisen with this and plan B is asking him to leave until I can sell the house in maybe a years time.

I realise I am incredibly lucky to be financially able to leave, others on here have struggled far more but I simply cannot say "go".

Sorry x-posted with lots.

Itsgrace - you made me laugh, that's definitely what I need to say.

Just need to get up the courage

List of things:

1. Comes home from work and sits in a chair and does not interact with family life at all

1. Niece visited and he stayed inside watching tv while we were chatting in the garden. Ditto old family friend

1. Does not contribute at all to the house - he may hoover once a month or empty the dishwasher occasionally. Although he will sort out the vehicles if we have a problem

1. We do go out together on a Sunday, but it is only one activity. Despite repeated efforts and different suggestions he will not do anything else.

1. We (as a couple) never go anywhere he doesn't want to go as he will moan about it constantly. I have now given up asking.

1. He did agree to me getting a puppy but with the proviso that it was entirely my responsibility. He now whinges if I go out and leave the dog with him - Although that is slightly difficult when we live in the same house - i never leave the dog long enough for him to have to actually do anything with it. I think that getting a babysitter for the dog when he is in the house is a bit much...

1. I sort all the money and then he moans that I spend too much. He has no idea what all the bills amount to.

1. One row last year, when I was trying to discuss things rationally, he put his fingers in his ears and repeated lalalalalal constantly so he couldn't hear me.

1. Another row he tried to goad me into hitting him. Slammed a chair down and gorged wood out of a set of drawers

10. New Years Eve about two months after my Dad died he was drunk and started an argument over nothing and broke a piece of furniture that my Dad gave me.

That is all off the top of my head - i tend to blank lots and don't remember things because it is easier that way - but that was very theroputic (sp?)

yes, you can say go.
Try it.

Wow, he's a treasure, isn't he?!

Thanks for posting back - we don't need to worry about him breaking your legs or anything (though it sounds as if hiding the glassware might be prudent). He's more likely to stick his fingers in his ears ... he literally did that??! Does that suggest he's unlikely to leave? Would it help if you pre-pack his weekend bag & hand it to him as you open the door? That's a serious suggestion, btw.

If your DCs are at home, will you tell them first? Would they want to be there with you or not, do you think?

You don't necessarily have to post everything here (although you can if you want to!) but it's worth adding to your list as you remember things. The important thing is to know that you are making the right decision, accepting that you probably won't persuade him of that.

You don't have to live like this.

In terms of the logistics, it's worth talking to a solicitor (you'll only get a free 30 min appointment) and looking at the practical aspects of property etc.

Your life really does sound miserable. The trouble is, that you have acclimatised, you're weary rather than angry or offended any more. That's why you're having trouble taking the next step.... you're bumping along on rock bottom waiting for it to get worse when this is probably as bad as it gets.

I also used to live with a controlling, functioning alcoholic. Ironically, he stormed out on me when I finally stood up to his bad behaviour and demanded change. Even more ironically, I was upset when he did so. Looking back, it's almost funny.

Whatever you end up doing, good luck