help from wwifn and countingtoten - emotional affair

[Totallyunravelled]

if wwifn or counting or anyone else for that matter is around i could really do with some help please.

my dh and i have been together 6 years, one 8 month old baby and my dd from my 1st marriage.

at the start of our relationship (about first year) he was talking and flirting with other women on the internet through dating sites. i found out a long time after and was devastated, i read the email exchanges between him and these women and felt sick. im not sure how i got 'over' it, i think i just buried my head in the sand and was so hurt i had to pretend it never happened. this was all about 4 years ago i found out.

ive now found out that there was one woman that he actually progressed from internet talking with to talking by text and phone. he also arranged to meet her. i know he didnt actually meet her because ive now seen the emails from her where she was (understandably) confused as to why he'd suddenly gone from talking to her all the time to suddenly nothing, breaking their date and ignoring her texts/calls.

i know it was over 5 years ago now that it actually happened but i feel sick and totally lost. ive spent the last two days in bed and havent been able to look after my dc at all, hes had to have 2 days off work. i keep thinking that he must have been texting her when i was with him, that we'd been in bed together then he'd got up and phoned her. i feel sick. he was telling me he loved me the whole time and now i know what hes capable of in terms of lying to my face. he and her had this 'emotional affair' for about 2 months i think, maybe less. she wrote in her emails that she couldn't understand what had gone wrong and why were his 'usually so loving texts' suddenly cold.

back then i was a size 10 and we had sex all the time, we both really made an effort and we had lots of child free time as my exh had contact with our dd. now im a size 16, constantly covered in babysick, we never spend time together without the children. so how am i supposed to believe he wanted to cheat then but doesnt now? we talk about it and talk about it but im scared by how bad i feel about it all, i hit him yesterday and then i tried to slit my wrists. im ashamed and confused

wwifn - how do you get over the deceit and the feeling like shit and the sudden realisations like 'oh, on the date she sent that email we were having a romantic night together and you were texting her 20 minutes before i arrived'????????

sorry this is probably so long but i really need help here if anyone knows what to do i just keep crying and my dd keeps asking me why

sorry to hear you're going through this

I haven't got any advice for you but it does get better honestly...

If you think you're likely to hurt yourself again please think of your little ones and get help.

Happy to help you, but I think I need more clarity.

Are you saying that this happened within the first year of your relationship, rather than your marriage? How long had you been seeing him before this happened? Did the woman know he was in a relationship/married?

What have you found now that gives you this information and how did it come to light? And what is your H saying about all this?

Just in the meantime before someone else comes along with more constructive help, I agree with maggie - you need support and help. Make sure you don't hurt yourself again, but do get to the GP and say how bad you are feeling. They have counsellors they can refer you too. You are worth looking after, I'm sure you're a great mum, take care of yourself x

I really think you need to call your GP and arrange for counselling and/or some medication to get over this crisis. I was initially very traumatised when my DH first left and was prescribed diazepam (sp?)(for a week) to calm me down. I also called the Samaritans in the early hours one morning. When I found out he was with an OW I arranged counselling via Relate for myself because I recognised I would need help to come to terms with everything. In the end we went to counselling together for a number of months.

For you now, it's like the initial discovery all over again and just as traumatic .

You need to work on your self esteem, making yourself feel good, doing fun/lovely for you and your H needs to work on himself and find out why he felt it necessary and OK to cheat/lie etc.

Please call your GP and get some help, and it might be useful to have some time on your own without DC and H

i think i might need to go to the drs because just readibg your post made me cry again AM. i had pnd with my first dd so maybe thats come back this time, before the school holidays it was fine but now i just cant seem to cope with two dc and the baby screaming all the time and just wanting to lie in bed and make it all go away.

sorry cross posted.

One thing I will say is that men seem to be better able to separate things and treat them like they have no relation to the other.

My DP had what I now know as an emotional affair, but at the time didn't really understand and have only come to understand it through counselling for an actual affair since.

There were occasions when we had been doing something and he would stay up late and then talk to her when we got back, but in his mind the fact that he'd been out and had a nice time with me was separate from his texting her later. It's also easy (I feel) for them to justify it to themselves that they haven't actually physically done anything. In my case this was his work colleague and she appeared to be very keen to be friends with me. She was supposed to be coming to a concert with us, which luckily didn't happen as I found out first, but my DP hadn't even thought about the problem of that.

I guess what I'm trying to say is (sure WWIFN will put it better) that it's not necessarily about you and how he felt/feels about you. He may have meant what he was saying to you.

Yes please get to the doctor.

It also sounds to me like you may need some help with your self esteem so try to get yourself some counselling if you can - it helped me.

I'm now 2 sizes bigger than I was when I met DP. I went through illness and surgery that put me at a size 24 by the time it was all sorted out, and although I've lost some of that weight I haven't lost it all. But we are happier than we have been in a long time.

it was the first year of our relationship, we were just dating, we met through internet dating. he just carried on on the dating sites but told me we were in an exclusive relationship. (and that he wasnt on them) this was very important to me because i didnt want him meeting my dd until we were 'sure' it was going to be a long term thing.

he met her, my dd, after about 6 months and gradually over the next 6 months we started doing things as a family.

i found out after we married. id seen something strange when i did a computer clean and it came up with all these dating sites. i used his normal passwords and up popped all these accounts. i didnt see lots of the conversations because they were held on some sort of instant messenger that doesnt store them but i saw loads of emails all about how he was alone on valentines and how 'lovely' they looked etc, actually we were together on valentines but he sent that about two minutes before i walked through the door of his flat.

i was devastated but he swore he'd just been lonely, drunk and bored at home (it was when we didnt live together and often i was at mine because of course i had my dd) and that he just got addicted to the attention. he swore he never went on any dates or did anything other than flirt online.

then this weekend it came out that two of our close friends are splitting up and the husband has been cheating. this was a massive shock. we had a conversation about it and he said the h was 'brave' to have told his wife why he'd left i was furious and we ended up having a massive row and then he told me about the one who he'd been talking to by text and phone. i then went onto (yet another) dating site where all the messages from back then were saved (which is how i know they really didnt meet up)

so it all happened 5 years ago but it feels like it happened yesterday.

i just keep thinking 'but hang on, 5 years ago is when you came to my parents 60th and its when you bought me that ring and its when we went on holiday for the first time as a family and...' it feels like every memory from back then is totally ruined.

and i feel a fraud because it was so long ago and nothing physical happened yet i feel like ive been turned inside out.

AM - Thats exactly it i keep thinking but you had sex with me then got out of bed and saw a text from her how could you possibly do that to me??

i feel like i know exactly what he is capable of now, to be able to look at me and say he loved me when all the time he was plotting to meet her beind my back.

he kept saying last night that it was about him not me, that i was perfect (yeah right) but that he was insecure and thought id go back to my exhusband and that he was enjoying this 'big i am' personality where he had all these women on the 'go' on the internet.

i remember him playing this beautiful coldplay record one night, lying in bed with me, both of us had one earpiece in each and he said 'this is how i feel about you' and played that song and was kissing me and it was the most romantic thing ever and now i know earlier that evening while id been out he'd been talking to her on the computer.

sorry im rambling. i cant seem to stop crying though and i cant seem to focus. wanted to post this at the weekebd but each time i tried i started crying again.

Ok, you have every right to be upset so don't feel like a fraud.

Internet dating is addictive. I remember when I was doing it loving the attention even if it did come from people I had no intention of ever meeting, especially as I had been single for a long time and had really low self esteem.

What made him worry that you would go back to your ex? How long after you split from your ex did you start seeing each other? How old were you both?

He could've been plotting it with every intention of meeting her behind your back, but equally he could have been just carried away with it and trying not to admit to himself how he felt about you when he thougth you might not stick around.

I don't know you or your DH so I can't say what his motivations might have been. Is there anyone you can talk to in RL who will be honest with you?

Thanks for that clarification.

Before commenting further, can I echo the advice about going to the doctors? If you're at risk of self-harming and can't function properly at the moment, you desperately need some RL help.

I am assuming that nothing like this has happened since and that he has never given you even a niggle of suspicion since you were married or living together?

That being the case, I would try to get some perspective about this. Having talked to a few friends now who've done internet dating (and perhaps you can also relate to this a bit) there is something of a thrill about contacting people/being contacted through these sites. It can be quite addictive.

It must seem to you that he was still keeping his options open even after he'd agreed to an exclusive relationship. Now he might admit that to you, or tell you that he was just a bit addicted to the buzz of it all. One of the questions I'd be asking him is why he didn't follow through with the date he'd planned? What stopped him?

Given what he told you about his friend and his assessment that the friend was "brave" is quite illuminating, since it seems to suggest that he thinks that his friend could have been forgiven for pretending there was no OW involved, doesn't it? Therefore, I think you need to have a conversation about your attitudes to fidelity and honesty in a marriage.

When ever something like this happens, I always advise people in your situation to consider the personality and character traits of your DH. Does he dislike confrontation? Does he tell pointless lies to people? Is he selfish? Does he take responsibility for his actions and his choices? Does he have a sense of entitlement?

Given the comment about his friend, what are his attitudes to fidelity generally? What excuses if any, is he making for his friend's adultery?

Regarding your more general point about how it is possible for someone to attend happy events and behave normally while they are hiding such a secret, it is often the case that because some people equate infidelity with sex, until that has happened, they can quite easily compartmentalise the two relationships.

They delude themselves very successfully that this is not infidelity and that they can extricate themselves from a proper assignation if they have to. Part of the bargaining that goes on is "this is just a bit of fun; an ego boost. It's not going to threaten my relationship and it makes the day go quicker - it's just a bit of harmless fun, really. I work hard, don't I? I'm a good person, aren't I? I deserve a bit of an adventure, but I won't let it get out of hand."

I think you two really need to have some honest talks. A counsellor who understands emotional affairs and infidelity generally would be most helpful, so screen this person carefully.

thank you all, you've said some things that have really chimed with me. he hates confrontation, his mother was mentally ill when he was a child and very up and down, he learnt to lie to not get into trouble.

he says he hates infidelity. he said our friend was 'brave' because he would have been too scared to admit the truth (that made me feel so secure, not), he is disgusted with him actually cheating. dh has never cheated on previous partners as far as im aware. we are both mid 30s. my marriage had broken up about 4 months before we met but exh and i were going to relate to ensure an amicable break up for our dd. he thought/worried we'd get back together.

he said he didnt go on the date because he didnt want to, that it had gone too far, that he'd been enjoying having his ego stroked (exactly what you say above about 'makes the day go quicker' etc) but when it became 'real' he just didnt want to go through with it. he told her his mum was ill then he just ignored all texts/emails from then on! she was very upset, ive seen the emails.

the bit thats making me feel sick is that he was 'choosing between' us, that i was being 'graded' and i didnt even know. the thought that mentally he had a list of pros and cons for each of us makes me feel ill. hes said it was nothing like that it just got out of hand

i have to go and look after dd now, parents have the baby, but i will be back later. thank you again, i need to sit down when dd in bed and think about all this properly.

"my marriage had broken up about 4 months before we met but exh and i were going to relate to ensure an amicable break up for our dd. he thought/worried we'd get back together."

I might be a bit naive, but in that situation I probably wouldn't feel very secure either...

It doesn't sound to me like he was grading you or choosing between you, just that he did something stupid.

Having said that I think that maybe you could have couples counselling to talk about this - the most interesting thing I've heard is my DP explain to the counsellor the whole story from his point of view. Gives you a better insight.

But more importantly I think you need some help yourself. The way you've reacted over this is to an extent understandable but worrying.

What would happen if he really did cheat or did something that made you feel like this again? What would happen if you had succeeded yesterday and left your dcs without their mother?

Please talk to your GP, get some counselling or something to help build up your self esteem and help you deal with these feelings so if they come back at any time for whatever reason they don't affect you in the same way.

A lot of things were happening at the time for him including family bereavements, and also i can see why he felt insecure, i think you're right AM, I would have felt that way too. I've been trying to think this afternoon (around making jewellery with dd) why i've reacted so badly to finding out this when i already knew about the rest.

i think its my self esteem, i feel sick when i see myself in the mirror, my hairs a mess, i never wear make up, ive put on 4 stone, im wearing tracksuits all the time which are covered in babysick and i seem to have totally lost the confident person i was before. i was really ill when pregnant and couldnt exercise and now still dont seem to be able to lose the weight. it seems so pointless even trying that i'll sit and stuff my face with cakes because it seems easier.

i havent been out with him apart from the cinema since getting pregnant. i cant bear the thought of anyone who used to know me when i looked after myself seeing me and i hate the thought of his friends seing me and pitying him for being stuck with me.

so to find out he was talking to another woman when i was, if you like, the best i could be (in terms of not just looks and pride in appearance but personality, i was fun loving and we used to have a good laugh together) makes me feel that he will obviously do it now then because im nowhere near as good a 'catch' as i was. i know this all sounds warped but its how i feel now. ive got to the point where i hate leaving the house.

he keeps saying he is a different person now from what he was then, that he was in a bad place then and was drinking all the time and didnt really know what he was doing.

to be honest the way i have reacted to this has really scared me, it seems to have effected me totally. i think i might have had a touch of pnd for a while anyway and this has just sort of compounded it.

ive ordered that book by s glass although i dont know whether its appropriate but it cant hurt.

its the thought of him making plans that i knew nothing about and therefore he could be doing the same now, i could wake up one day and he could have left and id be there on my own with two children.

All the things you've said totally in your last post are the reasons you need to get to your GP and admit how bad you are feeling.

When people are 'fed up' they can boost themselves a bit and talk themselves out of all this negative stuff. But when they're depressed that isn't nearly as easy, because of how truly bad they feel. You sound so low and down on yourself, that I don't see how you could deal with relationship stuff right now. You need professional help. You really do. I think you should make an urgent appointment with your GP and spill it all out - about how you feel about yourself. Write it down on a piece of paper before you go and hand it over if it gets too much.

You are not going to be able to deal with complex relationship stuff until you feel stronger. You need to take care of yourself, you're worth it and you deserve better for yourself and your kids.

agree with loves2walk and others. The immediate priority is to get you functioning and having a sense of self-worth again, which is going to require a trip to GP to discuss whether meds and or counselling is appropriate. I do understand I think some of what you are going through with weight gain/self-image, having been 5 stone overweight until v. recently. Your DP has behaved badly, but this is I think potentially fixable, if you can talk things through and get the trust back.

I think you're both right. I know I feel now how I felt when I had pnd the first time so I think I am depressed.

I suppose a sign that I'm ill is that I thought it was reasonable to feel this bad about myself, I just thought it was how I should feel having let myself go, and that I was right to feel totally ashamed of myself.

I have had Citalopram before, I just think I'll feel such an idiot going back to the drs and explaining Im not well after all.

I might ask DH to read this thread and to come to drs with me, it will ensure I go, and maybe let him know exactly how bad Im feeling.

Im going to go to bed, but one last question if anyone knows, if I tell them re the self harm will they take my dc away? That thought is making me go into a panic.

In brief re:SH - from discussions with friends who have SHed - No. SS would only be concerned if you habitually were SHing in front of the kids. And (may get flamed for this!) IMO better to go to GP even if you miss out the SH bit but are honest about the rest than not go at all.

PS if you have surestart or children's centre nearish you, you may be able to access support through them - counsellor/creche etc.

Thank you Total, would never do it in front of DC. Think maybe small steps, will see GP but not necessarily go into all the SH details for now. Thank you

Oh what an awful worry to have on top of everything else. Of course if you're worried about SS taking children away, you don't need to say about self harm. I think chaos is right though - that it would not be passed on to them. But don't say it if it makes you feel nervous. Just make sure you do say how low you are feeling so you get enough help - like not just meds, you need to be on the list for counselling too.

Despite feeling this bad, you are doing a great job of keeping going - jewellery making! What a star you are, I bet your DD had a lovely afternoon.

She got bored after about ten minutes but I manfully carried on making the Barbie necklaces

It does show I was better today, my parents had my youngest dd so I only had one to look after but I did manage it and felt quite proud, whereas yesterday I couldnt even get out of bed

Thank you again for your comments, really am off to bed now

Hope you're feeling better today

I'm sure you aren't anywhere near as bad as you say you are - we all have a tendency to think the worst of ourselves when we're low.

On top of going to see the GHP how about having your hair done? or your nails? or treating yourself to something nice like make up or a new outfit and maybe a night out with your DH if you can get a babysitter? whatever it takes to give yourself a little boost even if you end up going to a pub for half an hour?

hello, am not too bad today thank you. Had a few wobbles late last night, a bit of a panic attack, but managed to get through it.

saf - you are right, my world has shrunk. ive gone from manic career woman to pretty much housebound in a very quick time. I had spd very badly so didn't leave the house towards the end of my pregnancy, then my ocd got worse with being pregnant so I stayed in more. Even today my friend was supposed to be coming over but I almost cancelled, I got scared that I might not be able to cope. Luckily I didnt cancel and we had a really nice time, but each time I dont fight the urge to just stay in my world gets a little smaller.

So the thought of him 'chosing' someone else or leaving fills me with utter dread and horror. The 'old' me would have laughed and said 'there's the door' probably. Currently, he feels to me like the only thing I have left linking me to normalcy, I feel like if I didnt have him Id be sent to an institute or have the children taken off me.

I think lots of things have come at once, summer holidays have given me 2 dc to care for rather than one suddenly (i know others cope with far more), the baby has been screaming constantly - apparently she's getting acid reflux with her weaning, she's also not sleeping at night, im having to take exh to court over unpaid child support whic is upsetting me, and im scared of having to put dd2 into nursery when I go back to work (which I'm also scared about).

So obviously this is all about much more than what has happened all those years ago. And quite obviously I need to seek help to get back on track.

On a lighter note I will try to get into the hairdressers at the weekend to have it all chopped so I can actually manage to style it going forwards. Though actually thinking about going to the hairdressers is making me have a panic attack. Every time I read another kind message on here I get all teary again

Not quite sure where the 'normal' me went, or even which the normal me is.