I can't stand DH today

[uptooearly]

DH and I have a volatile relationship. We've been together for nearly 11 years, so I know very well the kind of thing that sets him off on one of his moods - the house being a mess, my having friends round, throwing a party (even for the DC), my going out, expecting him to do his fair share with the DC).

This past week my sister and her husband, who live in the States, have been here. She's pregnant, so I threw a baby shower for her last weekend, I've taken time off to be with her, and she's been round most evenings for dinner.

DH has been on edge the whole time (in particular over the baby shower) but yesterday he blew up at me because my sister is finally taking back with her a piece of our grandmother's embroidery that I'd had framed as an engagement present for her two years ago. We've had it hanging in our sitting room all this time to keep it safe and to enjoy it, but it was always on loan until my sister could get her act together to take it back. I'm sad to see it go, because it's lovely, but I'm glad that she's finally able to take it.

DH is furious that 'they've taken it off the wall', that I spent (my) money on framing this piece of embroidery, that I am giving her this particular one instead of two other things that I framed at the same time, and which he hates, and spent all of yesterday shouting, sniping, swearing and complaining about it. He managed to restrain himself (just) in front of my sister, but the DCs heard everything, and then he embarrassed me in front of the next-door neighbours (with whom we don't get on) by making loud and sarcastic remarks about her.

She leaves today, and I'm really down about that, because I don't know when I'll see her again. But I am so miserable to be married to someone who is great to be around as long as I don't do anything to wind him up, and who is capable of being so utterly unpleasant to me, and about other people, especially those I love.

Today I could just walk out and leave him. If we didn't have children I would.

All I want to do is cry.

You don't have a volatile relationship.

You are walking on eggshells all the time because you are in a relationship with s bully.

You already know how unreasonable his behaviour is, so I'm not going to point it out, but do you really think the appalling way he treats you and talks about others is a good influence on your children?

What is it teaching them that if he doesn't get his way all the time he is nasty to you?

He sounds dreadful. A the very least you should insist that he sees someone about his behavioural problems (whilst living apart from the family).

Or just kick him out. He sounds like he's just a dick in general.

He is abusive. Have a look at this: www.freedomprogramme.co.uk/mrgoodbad.php and see how many of the boxes he ticks.

You are right skidoodly, he is a bully.

I think I've been kidding myself all these years that because I know what he is, and because I don't let fear of his reaction prevent me from doing what I want or think is right, that I'm in control of this situation.

But the anxiety it causes me when I do what is absolutely normal by reasonable person's standards, like throw a baby shower, or give my sister a present, is driving me mad.

And I do worry about the effect he is having on our DSs. The last thing I want is for them to inherit any of their father's bad points, but I haven't the energy to throw him out.

And, unsurprisingly, he has rejected the idea of therapy (for himself or us) each time I've mentioned. Obviously I'm the one with the problem.

Dear God, malinkey, I knew he was emotionally abusive but I didn't realise he was practically textbook. He ticks 15 of the boxes in the link you attached.

The only ones he doesn't tick are: cuts me off from my friends (although not for want of trying); stops you from working (I work full-time and earn more than he does); controls the money (as I have my own money, and my own bank accounts, I'm not beholden to him for anything); and seduces friends/anyone (he rarely puts himself out to be nice to anyone so most of my friends and family know what a tosser he is).

Do you think I should show him the list? It might shock him into realising that he is the problem, but I feel sick at the thought of the argument we are bound to have about it.

Would not bother showing him the list; he won't take any notice of such a thing anyway.

"The last thing I want is for them to inherit any of their father's bad points, but I haven't the energy to throw him out"

You have been ground down by him over the years. The scenario you describe above could well happen anyway unless you do find the energy from somewhere to separate from him. A childhood where they have seen their mother emotionally abused by their Dad is not the legacy you want to be leaving these children. You still have some fight left because you have posted here; you know this is wrong for you and your children.

Both you and your H are teaching these children damaging lessons here. Your children won't thank you for staying with such a man, you have a choice re him.

Um, he does tick the box of seopararing you from your friends and family. The fact that he hasn't succeeded (yet) means only that you have so far resisted, not that he isn't trying.

If he won't seek help and thinks you are the problem then he has to go. I'm sure you're worn out from all theses years of standing up to him. If you turn the energy you spend deflecting his moods to getting rid of him you will soon have a much more relaxed life.

Really, this is no way to live.

His pure selfishness is absolutely breathtaking. Does he not understand that giving a present means giving something that the recipient will like, not something that you want to get rid of? You spent money on it, well, yeah . And not only to grumble, but to spend the whole day in a major strop, over a picture, is a bit peculiar to be honest. We may leave out of consideration the fact that it's your sister's grandmother as well as yours, but not his, so should be considered in the light of an heirloom rather than a marital asset. I doubt there's a legal distinction, just a moral one imo. It stands morality on its head to be furious with you for being generous and loving instead of selfish and mean, and I agree, it's a ghastly example all round for the DCs.

If it were XH I'd suspect he only preferred that one because it was due to be given away, but that may be digging too deep.

So "the item" should be considered in the light of, etc; I know your grandmother isn't an heirloom .

I wouldn't show him the list, it's just something I found very useful when I was trying to work out what was going on in my own relationship.

I would suggest reading up on emotional abuse a bit more as I found that helpful in getting my head around what was going on. Despite you wanting to tell him he's abusive, he is very unlikely to be shocked into realising he's the problem - he either doesn't care or won't believe you.

"Today I could just walk out and leave him. If we didn't have children I would."

But because you have children it's even more important - would you want them to be as unhappy in future relationships as you, or worse end up being abusive like your partner?

I agree with the others, and it does sound veyr much as if he is trying to cut contact between you and your family.

'But I am so miserable to be married to someone who is great to be around as long as I don't do anything to wind him up, and who is capable of being so utterly unpleasant to me, and about other people, especially those I love.'

This got to me, it's not you doing things to wind him up, it's his ridiculous expectations of what he wants that is causing the trouble.
I am really glad you posted this thread as I think deep down you know this is no good and now you can get help and support on here.

It is a good thing that you work and earn as it will be easier for you when (not if) you leave him. I have no real advice as I am a child of a bully, not an exp, but you knwo what you need to do for you and your children. I am much happier now I come from a 'broken' home than I was when I cam from an abusive one.

Thank you so much everyone for your posts and support. It has been enlightening and horrifying to see our relationship from an outsider's point of view because I have got so used to DH's behaviour, even though I can't bear it, that there are times when I think that he is the reasonable one, not me. And that the way we are together is 'normal'.

He woke up yesterday in a contrite mood, even apologised for being such an arse over the picture, was extremely nice to my sister and BIL when they came over for breakfast, and even offered to take them to the airport (this despite the German Grand Prix being on), and didn't object when I said that I was going with them in the taxi to see them off.

This is par for the course with him - a week of sulking, followed by an explosion, followed by extreme niceness.

When I got back, DH was still being really nice, but started justifying his behaviour over the last week by saying that he had found my sister being here, the baby shower and the taking of the picture really stressful.

At this point I told him that I had googled domestic violence, and found that he is an emotionally abusive bully. He looked stunned that I would even have done such a thing, never mind that this is what he is, so I then gave him malinkey's list to look at.

At first he thought it was funny, but by the time he got to the end he was astonished that behaviour he considers normal, like shouting, sulking or putting me down is actually that of a bully. I told him that I can't live like this anymore, and that unless he changes his behaviour, I can't see our marriage lasting. He told me that he loved me and was sorry, and would try to control his temper, and I said that I'd heard that kind of thing before, and perhaps he should go on an anger management course. He didn't like the idea of that at all, but at least he didn't turn it round on me and say it was me that needed therapy.

I want to give him one more chance to change before I give up on our marriage. I still love him, stupidly, and I am hoping that with the knowledge he now has about his behaviour, he will try to change and become a better person, husband and father.

I have a copy of the list of behaviours in my handbag and the next time he is behaving badly I'm going to remind him. I'm also going to find an anger management class near us and encourage him to go.

I don't know if this is going to work. Even if DH did know before I told him so, that he is a bully, he didn't know that I know. It's all now out in the open, so at least we both know what we are dealing with. And if we do split up, I want to be certain that I tried everything I could to make things work and to help him. If he chooses not to change then I will have to find the courage to end our marriage for my sake and that of the children.

Well done, I think you're handling things brilliantly. I've been where you are, and though the eventual outcome was separation, I put up with a lot before I was ready to take that path. Good luck.

Well done uptooearly, and the best of luck. It is possible for abusive partners to change their ways, but only if they really want to. Don't let this slide; he may be a good man with some bad habits, but it'll take a lot of training - by himself of himself, though reinforced by you - to put those bad habits to bed. He's had them for years if not all his life. He had no reason to change because his bad behaviour was rewarded by everyone tiptoeing round trying not to "set him off". The system has to change so that he is now rewarded for handling stress well, and pulled up for handling it badly. Sounds like training a dog or a small child, doesn't it? Or shall we say, more like a big strong mature dog who is all full of himself and badly needs retraining. Only cleverer.

ps Don't show him that bit I said at the end, he may find it insulting.

wow OP just found this thread and you've done really well. it's at least a good sign that he was so shocked and didn't get angrier at you/turn it round on you. I hope you can find some therapy for him, it sounds like he really wants to change

ok that's fab- but anger management is not really advised for people like you husband.... it's very commonly bandied about and there are lots of courses but the evidence suggests that only the ones that address the issues in terms of perpetrator programmes work. Think about it, generaly is he agressive, bullying to his boss, work coleagues other people (does he get into fights in pubs etc)? Probably not so much eh? Then he has no problem managing his anger in those situations....he's being a bully and agressive to you. The charity Respect (google it) are a good place to start
good luck

is good you made him aware and potentially might be the kick he needs...

there are courses eg www.temper.me.uk/16253.html - not sure how good these are - but it should be HIM who looks for help - if you find and arange a course for him you taking on the responsibility...

GP cna also arrange counselling

And definitely read the Lundy Bancroft book, "Why does he do that?"

Yes the moodiness, the explosion, the sweetness and light, it is called The Abuse Cycle look at the bottom of the page.

I am glad you have done something positive and shown him the list etc. I don't want to be the voice of doom and gloom but my ex reacted in just the same way, wanting to be different, not realising he was actually a domestic abuser with his controlling aggressive behaviours etc. But as time went on he would justify more and more of his behaviours as being my own fault and it came full circle to him not believing he had a problem at all. That is easier for abusive men, their behaviours are so deeply ingrained in them it is almost impossible to change.

I really hope not but I think you will be back here in a few months in the same situation. Luckily though you now have a name and awareness of what he is doing. Coming on MN and finding all this out opened the cell door for me, having many people on here tell me how wrong it was gave me the strength to throw him out and change my situation. You won't be able to ignore this now you know how wrong it is. Read the Lundy Bancroft book as someone said. It is amazing. As is "Living with the Dominator" by Pat Craven.

I have a lovely friend whose husband is like yours . He can be full of rage (eg cutting up his clothes in a temper when he can't find anything he likes to wear), blames her for anything wrong in their lives eg money shortages, gets cross if she doesn't immediately pick up her mobile when he calls (I've never spent more than an hour in her company without him calling) then is apparently very solicitous and affectionate the rest of the time "so I know he really does love me" .

More heartfelt thanks, ladies.

hettie, you are absolutely right - DH doesn't get into fights (he's a physical coward really), and he's not verbally aggressive to his colleagues or other people. If anything he's passive/aggressive and just mutters and complains or becomes silent. He blows up at his parents only very occasionally but he's mostly extremely respectful of them, and wary of doing anything to upset them (I think that the way he's been brought up has contributed to the way he is now).

The only people he is awful to are me and mine - he's blown up at my mother and sister in the past (he's jealous of our closeness and obviously sees them as extensions of me), which has been very difficult to resolve, and he is frequently rude to my friends.

I knew that this was so, but until I read your post, I didn't realise that this means that he is perfectly capable of controlling his emotions when the need arises. So he chooses to be awful to me and anyone connected with me. I suspect that this is because he suppresses a lot of emotions and anger at work and in his relationship with his parents, and has done all his life, but in me he's found an outlet for it.

shimmerysilverglitter, I had the same cold chill running down my spine reading your link as I did when I read malinkey's list - this is exactly how DH behaves and how he makes me feel. And the abuse cycle so accurately describes his pattern of behaviour that it's quite shocking. And alarming too, because I know from experience that when he's being nice and lovely there is nobody better, and that's what makes it hard to contemplate leaving him. This period (which he's in now, and can go on for a couple of days, weeks or months) is so dangerously seductive because I always end up thinking oh, this is it, this time he's learnt from his mistakes and we're going to be OK. Which makes the sulking and subsequent explosion so hard to bear.

I have so much thinking to do. I'm going to order Why Does He Do That and Living With The Dominator.

lilac21, shimmerysilverglitter, if you don't mind my asking, what was the final catalyst for you to end your relationships with abusive men?

For me it was posting on here repeatedly and being told how wrong my situation was. He did such a good job of making me feel it was my own fault, he would somehow justify the unjustifiable and I would feel like I was going mad, I knew how wrong it all was but he would somehow manage to turn it all back on me. He did things to me that would make your hair curl and yet somehow managed to make me think I deserved it.

I was trying to get him to leave for months and just refused to go, in the end we had a huge fight and he attacked me, I called the police and they removed him. I never allowed him back into the house again. I still see a lot of him because of the dc but it is not the same he does not have the same hold over me that he did before.

I think once you become educated about how abusive your situation is you are unable to ignore it and it has to change one way or another.

hi uptooearly, well done so far, but just a little word of warning .... once he's back in his cycle of unpleasantness, he's going to call you a bully.

He will turn everything you do into evidence of YOUR 'bullying and controlling behaviour'. It will be his way of reinstating his power over you, because once he's not feeling so contrite he definitely won't like the fact that you have criticised his abusive behaviour.

I've been there and heard it, and it will make you question your sanity! If you dare to argue back, you're bullying. If you dare to say what you want, you're controlling.

Just be ready for it!!

Oh you are so right *sixesandsevens". Very useful post there.,

OP you will be the bully because you are not allowing him to be the man he wants to be, ie a bullying aggressive arse. It is textbook. And herein lies the mad making behaviour I spoke of in my last post. Twisting things round and deflecting them back on to you.