"Why would they want to get married?"

[Over40]

Was recently having a discusssion with my mum (72)about two friends who have both lived with their partners for over 7 years and are also both in their very early 30's. Now I know that both the ladies concerned would like to be married and have kids but are waiting to be asked/don't feel they can push it/are in denial to all but their BF's.

Dear old ma reckons "Why would they (the men) want to get married when they have it all on a plate already?" Have they sold themselves short?

Discuss......

You may turn your paper over and have 3 hours.

I think it's taking a very dim view of men, they're all not all just after sex and the easy life.

I think if they (the cahps) have not asked by now then they don't want to be married...to that woman. They are doomed!

why. oh. why. is our society still so old fashioned that women have to sit around passive idiots whilst blokes get to call the shots with choosing if and when to get married?!!!!!

FFS. Why do we still accept that shit??????

And if a girl mentions it she feels like she's putting pressure on her bloke, or that she's nagging or some such other SHIT.

Do we still not really think we're equal enough to have honest conversations and decide TOGETHER whether to get married or not.

Honestly. It's such a load of shit.

Sorry. Didn't answer the question set. Do I lose marks?!

my DH proposed to me when i was 33 and he was 39. We had been together five years by then and living together three years.

I guess we're both just cautious... but we know that we really want to be together and are confident that our marriage will last.

so i disagree that men who haven't proposed by their mid-30s or by 7 years are not going to.. i guess it depends on the conversations the couple are having.. do they talk about retiring and growing old together? having children one day? we did..

I know it's old fashioned, but I do wonder sometimes why people have big fancy weddings when they're already living together and have children together.

As the law on cohabitants is woefully inadequate, I personally would not have had children without being married first as I knew that I'd be in deep financial shit if we split up and weren't married (spousal mtce, pensions, capital division etc).

Some people have definite ethical/ideological objections to the institution of marriage, so will never do it. Others (more likely men as they simply don't have the same worry about their declining fertility as women may do) think that there is plenty of time and why change something that's already working fine.
Still others see marriage as a major commitment, living together as less of one and TBH may well be marking time with a partner they are living with but not married to, as in the partner is not bad enough to leave but not the person they see themselves growing old with.

I'm with sixesandsevens - and I got married at 21, because dh really wanted to (no, he didn't 'propose', I would have shot him) - and he could absolutely have had it all without getting married.

Some people really care about marriage, some don't, some dislike the idea - it's up to each couple to figure out what works for them together, innit?

I would go so far as to suggest that if they have the 'sit and wait for the question' dynamic then maybe they shouldn't be getting married - or indeed making any long term plans together....

With the unparalleled wisdom of Mumsnet's finest, I've now decided what I want in future (if I ever get that far, heh) - a Fixed-Term Exclusivity Contract!

Your mum's out of date. People can get regular sex & someone to hang out with relatively easily; it's not as though they're only in it for the ride. Cohabiting is a commitment, assuming they do all the everyday couple stuff - people who only want sex & dates, without the shopping and gardening, live alone.

I don't believe your mother lost touch with the real world in 1959, so she's applying misandrogynist values: no man would ever commit to a woman for life, unless she somehow made him do it. What does that tell you about her opinion of your father??

Wrt your 2 friends, it surely depends on the conversations they've had with their partners. Some people - myself included, now - have an inbuilt resistance to 'lifetime contracts'. If they're the same, they wouldn't want marriage anyway. But if they're sitting at home, twisting their hands waiting for Him To Pop The Question? They've read too many Bridget Jones books and need to stop living with men who don't want what they want!!

I will be teaching my daughters if a man doesnt want to marry you, do housework, help look after the kids, show he loves you everyday and not just say it, be considerate, then he isnt good enough for you. I was taught that and got married when I was 20 to a wonderful man.

I have the same experiences with people I know they say cohabitation is ok, marriage is just a piece of paper etc but get them on a night out and a drink inside them and you find out that they would love to get married to their men more than anything.

If women valued themselves then there wouldnt be half the problems on boards like these.

I don't know I have been with dp for 7 years and he asked me to marry him fairly early in the relationship, that was usurped by dd being conceived. He recently asked about marriage again but tbh there is no way I would marry him. Our relationship is not good/solid enough for us to be legally tied.

I'm sure he would like to marry me and carry on in the vein of the last 7 years. He is happy to settle and honesty is anathema to him. I have told him that he is not "the one" for me, we have little in common, he doesn't seem to care .

COG - Why are you still there?

nafm - talk about made in heaven!

NAFM lucky you.

I have always known my BF never wanted to be married - 9 yrs later & 1 child...he still doesn't want to be married. I'm not fussed either way.

IGA - yes mum is out of date... she's 72! It's only after my own divorce that I twigged that what I really wanted in a man was someone like my own dad! Ironic really since we had quite a few years where we didn't really get on. Dad's not with us any more bu both my parent believed in faithfulness, duty and commitment. There was love there but not the visual demonstrative type... but the type that means you put the other individual and their needs and happiness first.. always. When I married my ex, mum made it clear that he was my no.1 priority now. Pity my ex husband didn't feel the same way!

Sixes... an A+ for heartfelt comment!

I guess what I find frustrating with these two friends is that while they haven't got, or not likely to get, the situation they want, neither are they prepared to do anything about it. For us girls we have a time limit if you want kids (and these two want them when they are married!!). I have strong suspicion (sp?) that these blokes really don't want kids and by holding off the marriage they think they are holding these off as well. Or rather its the old one of "It's not that I don't want kids, I just don't want your kids"..... subtext not spoken out loud of course!! And yes this is more commoat even I had thought some time ago....

The law on cohabitants is not "woefully inadequate"- for heaven's sake, if people want "marital rights" they can get married!

It's about time we saw marriage for what it is in this country. It's not about romance or commitment- cohabitees CAN (and are often are) as committed as married, it's about making it plain what your relationship to another adult is so if your partner should p* off and leave you, you can produce a piece of paper as documented proof that they promised to support you.
Also, if your other half dies intestate, you can produce the marriage certificate so you inherit.

So your mother is right that for purely practical reasons marriage for long-term couples is an excellent idea (I don't want to live in country where couples are deemed as "married" cos they've lived together for a few years. It's just wrong to have a third party decide for a couple when they've made a lifelong committment. They have to do it themselves via marriage), but I have no truck with the idea that actually being married is an automatic route to happiness and commitment.
Why does a person need a piece of paper to love someone else? It's daft to think that they do.

I'm not married, and have no plans to. I earn the same as DP, we have a mortgage with life insurance that will pay it if one of us dies. No pension/other savings etc and no previous married partners or children. Are we (or just me ) in a worse situation if he died or left me than if we were married?

I'm mid late twenties and have 2 young DC if that makes a difference

CaptainKirksNipples It sounds to me that you've covered the main areas financially yourselves, but if your DP dies intestate, you, as a cohabitee, will not appear on the "rules of intestacy". Although I think you could claim as a dependent- although this might prove to be a messy business and there is no guarantee of inheriting anything other than what you agreed legally on paper before he died.
I think that there are other areas that a cohabitee cannot cover on a "do-it-yourself" basis. For example, the inheritance tax issue (?)
It doesn't matter if you live together for 40 years, legally, without being married, the law can't (and shouldn't!) decide for you that you're a couple.

sunny2010 I never wanted to get married ..drunk or sober

CaptainKirksNipples -- yes, if one of you died the other wouldn't be entitled to widowed parent's benefit (which is a reasonable amount and not to be sniffed at). And if you are over the inheritance tax threshold then you'd end up paying extra tax (if the house is held as joint tenants rather than tenants in common that's unlikely to be an issue, as the house wouldn't then count as part of the estate). I assume you have wills?

Over40 Your mum is not out-of-date, she has an understanding that marriage is important because it clarifies the nature of a couple's relationship.
Marriage is still relevant today. Too many women live with men for years, have children with them, give up their jobs to look after said children, without realising that the law cannot reasonably marry them by "default".
If they then split up, they find out that there's nothing the law can do for them to compensate for the loss of monies during childrearing period.
Now for those cohabitees who don't care that they won't be treated like married in the event of a split, it's not a problem.
They'll just sort it out themselves and divide a property if it's jointly owned between them.
But for those that wish to be treated as married, then the clear answer is to get married. It's just common sense.

Your mum is definitely not out of date.My husband and I are both 26 and feel that way.

You are also right about marrying someone like your dad as I did just that, which is a good thing and why we get on so well. My parents have been together since early teens and I agree on the way they have done things. I dont believe in religion or anything though.