To interfere or not? I await your wisdom...

[babywrangler]

OK, so, Sil has a new BF, met on a dating site, together for 8 months.

She's been single for ages, since splitting with her first BF. lots of heart-rending, non-starters, some real bastards , very battered and bruised.

New BF seemed ok and she's starry eyed and in love with the whole fun of having a boyfriend. Completely understandable when she's had to watch her friends settle down one by one till she's the last standing and has found it so hard .

Was initially thrilled for her but as more stuff has slipped out, DH amd I are feeling increasingly worried.

Essentially she seems to be doing an incredible amount to keep the relationship going while he tosses a few compliments and weekends away at her now and again and completely loses it with her if his high standards are not met .

While money should never admit impediment, DH's family are incredibly well off and he is now really worried that new BF is only after Sil for the green .

Anyway, last Thursday he proposed and she is thrilled.

DH is dead set on taking his parents aside and warning them not to trust BF or invest in any of his schemes.
Pils think he's great fun, are thrilled at developments and would be shocked and upset to hear of our suspicions.

Certainly BF's a bit fake. He's ,careerwise, not what he claims to be but that could be down to the recession and him putting on a brave face while having to wait till markets pick up etc.
Also, Fil thinks BF is a city whizzkid and has recently been down on DH for not achieving more.

I think, horses/stable door and the time to speak out has passed.

I also think it may look like sour grapes on DH's part.

Sometimes you just have to be there to pick up the pieces, no?

I didn't want to stretch an already long post with too many details of BF's general wrongness, but am happy to provide further evidence of why my antennae are twitching.

Advice, flaming or otherwise, really appreciated.

well unless you have any info rather than gut feeling i would stay out of it.

more evidence please, you can disguise a few details!

I spent a long time at the weekend with a heartbroken relative who wished he had spoken to his daughter ten years ago about her choice of husband.

Ten years , two kids and a nasty divorce later, he feels really bad about not voicing his concerns back then

You are probably completely right about him, objectivity and gut instinct count for a lot...but you can't expect her to jettison her engagement just based upon your finely honed antennae! Unless he is abusive then I can't see how intervening would go down well.

has he got any profiles on Linkedin or Facebook?

are you in a position to get to know his family and friends better?

Do you know incriminating stuff about him that she is unaware of?

Or does she know the bad stuff but chooses to ignore it?

well the bf hasnt asked pil for investment funds yet has he?

I would have thought if your dh was so worried about his sister it would be her he had a word with, not the parents.

Thanks for answering!
Had to nip off to dreamfeed.

Lisad that's the side I come down on. We have some compelling reasons to be antsy but no hard evidence. Without that I think it would be horrible to spoil things for Sil and could cause massive problems between us.

However, Librium that's the reason we're still debating. DH adores his older sis and we've recently had a few friends let down spectacularly by their cheating fuckface husbands.

Evidencewise (if that's a word!)

Exhibit. 1
He's moving out of his (rented, couldn't swing a cockroach) flat in a posh part of town to live rent free in her owned (lived in but lovely) flat in a hipper but cheaper bit.
She's having to redecorate, refit flooring, repaint, get in pest control (just in case, because of his clothes ) all at her expense to please him and he's bitching about the move being a comedown. No, he's not contributing to the mortgage. She's paying for the pleasure of his presence.

EX.2
When his DCs from previous relationship come to stay she has to take time off work to look after them. This from someone who has never 'got' children and would rather eat her own foot than have any.
They don't speak English and she doesn't speak their language. They have to communicate with her in pictures.

She says it's less work than arguing with him .

EX.3
None of his work stuff checks out. He's basically unemployed but insists on paying for everything really ostentatiously when we're out claiming, 'it's on expenses.'

At least 3 of those times he's made her pay him back for all of us later.

EX.4
She is really scared of getting on the wrong side of him. She's hinted he's got a temper. I think it's verbal nastiness rather than anything else but I was over my due date for baby when they first met so don't know him as well as I should by now.

EX.5
She says he tells her all about his super glamorous, super rich, ex-model, earth mother, ex GFs, which makes her feel insecure. I wonder why he goes on about them.

Now, all this stuff is circumstantial, no evidence at all of wrongdoing and Sil is a grown up, and yet...

Thanks for answering!
Had to nip off to dreamfeed.

Lisad that's the side I come down on. We have some compelling reasons to be antsy but no hard evidence. Without that I think it would be horrible to spoil things for Sil and could cause massive problems between us.

However, Librium that's the reason we're still debating. DH adores his older sis and we've recently had a few friends let down spectacularly by their cheating fuckface husbands.

Evidencewise (if that's a word!)

Exhibit. 1
He's moving out of his (rented, couldn't swing a cockroach) flat in a posh part of town to live rent free in her owned (lived in but lovely) flat in a hipper but cheaper bit.
She's having to redecorate, refit flooring, repaint, get in pest control (just in case, because of his clothes ) all at her expense to please him and he's bitching about the move being a comedown. No, he's not contributing to the mortgage. She's paying for the pleasure of his presence.

EX.2
When his DCs from previous relationship come to stay she has to take time off work to look after them. This from someone who has never 'got' children and would rather eat her own foot than have any.
They don't speak English and she doesn't speak their language. They have to communicate with her in pictures.

She says it's less work than arguing with him .

EX.3
None of his work stuff checks out. He's basically unemployed but insists on paying for everything really ostentatiously when we're out claiming, 'it's on expenses.'

At least 3 of those times he's made her pay him back for all of us later.

EX.4
She is really scared of getting on the wrong side of him. She's hinted he's got a temper. I think it's verbal nastiness rather than anything else but I was over my due date for baby when they first met so don't know him as well as I should by now.

EX.5
She says he tells her all about his super glamorous, super rich, ex-model, earth mother, ex GFs, which makes her feel insecure. I wonder why he goes on about them.

Now, all this stuff is circumstantial, no evidence at all of wrongdoing and Sil is a grown up, and yet...

FFS he sounds appalling. He's deceitful, bullying and a scrounger. And no one should be scared of a partner.
If the family is wealthy, how about a private detective to see what this tosspot is actually up to - there may be a track record of him (for instance) conning women out of their life savings then dumping them. If you were able to find hard evidence of misbehaviour, do you think your SIL would listen?
The other thing to do for her would be to work on boosting her self esteem and reminding her that being single is good, it's much better than being ina shit relationship.

interesting that he has proposed to her just as he's about to move in with her...

does that mean that he is entitled to half her house if they divorce?!

It sounds a nightmare. Proposed after 8 months and conveniently moving into hers rent free? Does she realise that if he's sneaky and collects the right evidence he'll be able to end up making a claim on her property if they split, even if they don't marry?

How old is SIL?

Cocklodger, by the sound of it. I would share your misgivings with her dad and just tell him what you've told us.

Ooh, sorry, crazy doublepost.

kayah Yes he has but his profiles seem set up very recently and all of it is the bland marketing speak he spouts when any of us ask him what he does (believe me, we've tried).
Facebook is really inactive and very recent. LinkedIn also inactive. His so-called company is not registered with Companies House and when I asked an old colleague to check him out it turned out he'd worked for the companies he claimed but in much more junior positions than he says.
All his family and friends are overseas and there are question marks about his ability to remain in the UK.
Our only primary source of info is Sil and she is very 'Lalala, I'm not listening,' at the mo. When she lets something worrying slip I gently question and she immediately changes the subject. I don't want to betray my suspicions in case she stops voicing any worries to me altogether.

rupert He has asked for backing for his consultancy but there was a conflict of
interest so Mil couldn't do it. They were very excited about being big city people for a while though .

Honestly money isn't the issue. It's just the worry that he doesn't really love Sil and is just using her.

SGB You're bang on about the self esteem. I know it's a catch all nowadays but Sil really has no idea how lovely she is and I used to get so exasperated with her for trying too hard with shit blokes.
A private detective is an idea but I suppose it makes it all real rather than just the private suspicions in DH and my heads. Also it feels a bit extreme on the basis of some unfounded suspicions.
There is a bit of me that wonders if DH and I just have our noses out of joint.

Sil was always the screw up while he's quite sorted. She's making him look a bit boring now with this glamorous new bloke who has thoroughly turned the aunties and Pil's heads!

My basic position was that, without evidence, we can't go in guns blazing now they're getting married, so we'll have to just be ready to pick up the pieces.

Maybe we should be more active about getting this guy checked out.

Thanks to all for your advice it's really helping me get my head straight about this. I know it's not as dramatic and urgent as a lot of stuff on here but Sil is very fragile after some horrible experiences in the last decade and she means the world to us.

I would hate to spoil her happiness with unfounded cynicism but couldn't bear to see her let down badly again.

if that's not a secret - where is he from?

"there are question marks about his ability to remain in the UK"

It gets worse...:-(

Self entitled - check
Blame others for things - check
Bigs self up in fantasy that is more important, exes are most beautiful etc.. - check

Narcissistic cocklodger by the sounds of it indeed.

I see you are worried about her getting hurt emotionally but don't disregard the financial. UK property is, as we know, worth a pretty penny and she might even end up having to pay him and his kids maintenance once he's trashed her self esteem even further and made her doubt her self and then moved on.

Parents seem a bit at the root of this, as in your DH has easily felt a bit inadequate around someone clearly not worth feeling inadequate around due to their reactions to him - can imagine SIL feels this many times over, older sister not married etc..

I would have to be interfering, reflect back to SIL everytime she mentions a negative. Mention off hand, oh I bumped into so and so the other week who worked at x company...you know cocklodger didn't actually work at a senior level there etc..

I'd be more blunt with FIL about what you know. What if it is a bit sour grapes on your part, your instincts sound right.

Sil is 36, been single since she was 22 and bloody miserable about it despite my best misty eyed ruminations on the single life!

BoF, Cant tell Pil, he's a simple soul and would be briefly, utterly devastated before becoming enraged and going round there for a big old shout.
I wouldn't be able to speak to me if I did that to her .
If we're going to raise this with anyone it has to be her directly. I'd feel disloyal going behind her back.

Singledom They'd moved in a month before the proposal, but yes, it is convenient.

I'm going to have a chat with DH about a PI tomorrow.

I think we either commit to getting some hard evidence that BF's a wrong 'un or drop the whole thing.

Thank fuck for the wise night owls on Mumsnet eh?

Honestly, if you can afford it, hire a detective. There are men like this, who target desperate single wealthy women (apologies to your SIL), with wealthy families- the fact that he's already tried to rip off your PIL with phoney 'investments' is pretty worrying.
It sounds very likely indeed that he will have a track record of conning women out of money. He might even already have a wife. Or two.

Eurostar That is spookily perceptive, yes, there are some massive parental issues behind the lack of confidence. Also a big reason I would rather go direct to Sil than behind her back to the family.

I think she's already aware that we've cooled on BF. DH and I are quite open people and it's been hard to act like we think he's great. She's beginning to clam up and be a bit bright and brittle about it IYKWIM.

Definitely liking the more active route of doing some proper digging and getting hard evidence. Would love to have a chat with his ex for eg.
Not sure what we'll do if he just turns out to be a common or garden git with no previous.

I would be very, very suspicious as he is probably after right to remain...

I am sure if you know his name etc you should be able to establish his visa status.

Maybe yo ucan see his passport...
Pretending is need for some business venture

Oh god, I want to out him and I don't even know any of you!!

Yes, yes, be a LOT more precise, real and hard-hitting. A PI is a great idea, since you can afford it.

He's going to break her heart sooner or later. Sooner = less damage, in this case. I've known a few blokes like him

I did tell my best friend about hers, three weeks before the wedding and ten days before her High Court appeal against his extradition order. She was grateful.

Kayah It is quite specific so would probably out me in RL if I said but is a peaceful, prosperous western country, so not a massive red flag.

*probably repatriation, not extradition.

I'd hawk my ringpiece at the nearest dock for a PI if it would save Sil that kind of heartache. (I'm self made unlike DH's family )
Where do I go about finding a good one though?

He is a disaster waiting to happen to your SIL.

babywrangler - I am sending you a PM