Archers thread #198: Josh sent to Patagonia, Pip stays put. Wrong way round! Discuss The Archers here.

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Not feeling greatly enthused about what's going on in Ambridge at the moment, tbh. I'm annoyed at Brian's hypocrisy about Ruairi given the furore over George's attempt to frame Alice as the cause of the accident. I do hope we don't have a slow drip drip drip now as one after another the members of the Aldridge/Archer clan find out what really happened and endlessly agonise over what to do. Frankly I don't care. There! I've said it.

Pip's OK. Well, good, but what was the point of that story, I wonder?

I suspect I'm in a minority of one in rather enjoying hearing (a) from Bert Horobin and (b) about Fletcher. I surmise Bert is here to stay for a while because the BBC has (amazingly) updated his character page: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/profiles/1wQP3mKR6yr9LVs05jddxcY/bert-horrobin (prominent actor photo warning). Given how out of date a lot of the other character pages are, this seems odd, but there we are.

That's all I can be bothered to say! Over to you.

What a stupid woman Debbie is, to be sure. "I have no idea what is going on, but I am quite prepared to knife my stepfather in the back on your say-so" is folly if the person whose grievance against Brian is Adam.

She said herself that Adam has been at loggerheads with Brian all century. And yet she takes Adam's word (and that of her alcoholic-in-recovery neurotic half-sister) that Brian is being irrational without bothering to hear Brian's side at all. Hey, Debbie: remember how often you thought Adam unfit to run the farm? How little you trusted Adam's judgement?

Oh, and Debbie? Your father had an affair rather more than twenty years ago. I think it's time you stopped letting that be the only thing you think about when he is mentioned. After all, you know that your mother was having an affair shortly before that: you discovered it yourself and saw off her shagee. So portraying her to yourself as sans peur et sans raproche and the only person who was wronged in your parents' relationship is simply silly.

That was vile of Natasha to say how lucky Kirsty was to be off gallivanting every weekend without kids when she knows she’s had a late miscarriage/stillborn baby. I wish Helen had said “I’m sure she’d rather be at the park with Wren than having city breaks” - but obviously she wouldn’t as that would require a degree of empathy.

Also, Adam didn’t explain half the things that have been going on with Brian. Like, the things that don’t directly affect him, for example…
But I did understand Debbie’s feeling of wanting to escape his manipulations and lies.

I don’t think it was vile, just forgetful, slightly careless, as people’s comments often are. She wasn’t around then, obviously, so is less likely to hold it at the forefront of her mind. We all say unthinking things at times.

I think the edited version a function of its being radio; not everything is repeated in detail. There was enough to show that Debbie recognised what Brine is like.

I've got a feeling Kirsty is going to be a single mum.
Tom and Natasha are not a love match, they are like a couple of spoilt brats.
It's all tit for tat with them.
I didn't listen when Debbie was in The Archers so I don't know her, but I don't know why Adam couldnt have just had a phone call with her instead of going to Hungary.

Oddly enough I do believe in TomTash. Even though I cannot see what Natasha sees in him.

As to the prospect of Kirsty solo parenting - I guess that’s inevitable as neither of them would want to leave their own lives. Whether it’s a happy choice or not …

I don't think Natasha was vile. I don't carry the medical histories of most people in this village in my head, and was Natasha even around when Wren was born? We forget details in the broad sweep of our own everyday life.

@Nos4r2 I didn't listen when Debbie was in The Archers so I don't know her, but I don't know why Adam couldnt have just had a phone call with her instead of going to Hungary.

Because that way she could simply have done what I would do if Adam called me ... hung up.

So he would be unavailable to Brian.

She knew about it. She is married to Wren's father.

I was always sure that part of the reason Debbie went so far away was to be far far away from Brian and his antics.

In her shoes i wouldn't be best pleased that his affair-son was in everyone's faces and that he had been considered to inherit the farm (and by the looks of it that is where this is going). I don't get all the Debbie-lurve though. She clearly isn't stupid, far from it.

Debbie talks to Adam and her sisters regularly. She was close to her mum. And would be attending partner meetings regularly and seeing the figures. She will have been expecting Adam for a while.

Ruarie running the farm would be a nightmare.

I don’t want to be unkind to him, but he clearly wasn’t coping with his university or his job before he came back to Ambridge. His time as a sex-worker suggests deep-rooted mental health troubles. It was no coincidence that it was Ruarie who tried to take charge of ‘the holiday’ and then messed up the booking for the Scotland trip.

Great hearing Debbie - and true to form she didn't automatically take Adam's side when he suggested crop diversification. I don't trust her in any vote to unseat Brian. I like Adam. I actually feel quite sorry for him. He's spent his whole life trying to win Brian's approval - the man who is not his father, but is at the same time the only father he has ever really known. He has given his heart and soul to Home Farm - even though Brian obviously preferred Debbie. Every improvement he has made has been a battle - the herbal leys, the mob grazing, improving the soil when Brian knew of no other way than pouring on more chemicals. Brian has never had a good word to say for him. He may offer Adam the occasional crumb of approval to keep him on side when it suits him, but never loses a chance to remind him who's boss. Adam should have walked away - and you could hear him thinking that last night. He should have been the one to move to Hungary and golden girl Debbie should have stayed in Ambridge, but we all know why that didn't happen. Instead Debbie has kept her halo from a distance while poor Adam will never quite measure up. Brian is one of those particularly unpleasant people (I've known a couple in RL) who likes to have control over his family even into adulthood - bestowing houses and jobs on them and accommodating their businesses. In one way they are enormously privilege, but it means they never really have a life of their own because these things are dependent on his good will. With Jenny gone, there is noone to speak up for Adam. He is at Brian's mercy and he knows it.

Just chipping in to say that the programme is called The Archers, but the Brookfield Archers are the dullest family in the programme at the moment. The Aldridges are the ones that keep us talking, closely followed by the Bridge Farm Archers and the Grundy/Horrobin clan. If the programme survives, I can see Brookfield being reduced to a very occasional mention. Once David and Ruth are gone, Pip is just not interesting or well acted enough to sustain any majory storylines, especially now farming is no longer at the centre of most storylines.

He should have been the one to move to Hungary and golden girl Debbie should have stayed in Ambridge,

Oh God - it just breaks my heart to see it written down like that. And it’s so very true.

Regarding trusting Debbie - for one mad moment last night, when Adam first mentioned Brian’s assurance that he would inherit Home Farm, I was afraid she might suddenly feel the urge to dash ‘home’ and stake her claim to the inheritance. Such a knife to stick in Adam’s ribs. Such drama.

But obviously, that ain’t happening …

(Unless Ms Greig finds herself unaccountably short of work!?)

I missed that. But would a husband tell his wife about his mistress's pregnancy and neo-natal death/ miscarriage? I still don't think Natasha is vile, it's not part of her story.

Yes - Tom told Natasha all about his past with Kirsty (Though no doubt purely from his point of view.) And about Wren. So she does know.

I agree it’s the sort of thing a person might say thoughtlessly, not meaning harm. But it’s not a mistake Natasha should have made.

Kirsty wasn't Tom's mistress.

He'd dumped her at the altar and months later they had a one night stand where Wren was conceived.
He didn't meet Natasha until a couple of years later I think.

So he would have told her but I imagine in not much detail and I doubt it would be in the forefront of Natasha's mind. But it was thoughtless of her, but quite typical as she's very self-obsessed and has made plenty of nasty comments in her time.

Natasha's comment was exactly the kind of unthinking comment someone in the trenches of parenthood might say - the idea of dashing off for city breaks at the drop of hat probably seems very appealing to someone whose only nod to freedom is getting out of holding her husband's cricket sweater. I don't think she would have said it though because she knows Kirsty and Tom's history and she knows she hit the jackpot with twins with the man Kirsty should have married (we can debate who is the actual winner in this scenario, but from Natasha's point of view it was definitely her!) More interesting was the resurfacing of Natasha's spending habit - a satisfyingly slow-burner of a story in the style of Alice's alcoholism. There was the acknowledgement that she and Tom will miss Helen's rent - which also goes some way to explaining why the slightly unbelievable arrangement went on for so long - the distraction of Tom's unnecessary cricket sweater purchase, but the real story was the bags of stuff hidden under the bed.

If I were living in a modern executive home, designed with a small family in mind, but occupied by 7 (including two toddlers, a tween and a teen in the full throes of puberty….) I think I would have used up whatever store of tact and diplomacy I might have had a good few months ago! I am prepared to cut Natasha some slack.

Apart from the twins, Keira, Khalil and Zainab are there any <25’s in Ambridge who live with both their biological parents?

Please let’s have a happy ending to Kirstie’s pregnancy SL.

She definitely knew.

Also, Kirsty wasn't his mistress it was a one off before he was married to Natasha. Prior to that, years ago, Tom had jilted Kirsty at the altar.

I seem to remember Natasha actually having a conversation with Kirsty about Wren once? She was kind if I recall correctly

Yes.