Archers thread #191: Mulligan: stew made from odds and ends; second chance after poor shot. Both fit the bill. Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

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For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Mulligan mostly makes me think of John Finnemore's Souvenir Show. This is good, and tenuously connected to a recent TA storyline

Over to you!

Sorry. I hadn’t either but now I’ve thought about it…

ednaclouda
I thought Mick was very narrow minded

"This guy very nearly killed me, and my bidey-in, and one of our friends, and did cause the miscarriage of a baby. I don't wish to be served by him in my local shop. Please can I be served by someone else?"

Narrow-minded indeed. But Susan did her usual "my way or the highway" act, and lost his custom.

Oh god the bloody miscarriage. I hated that and the fact George took the blame for something that may have happened or Fallon may have wanted ultimately

its like they wrote a list of drama they could add and didn’t cross anything off

There can be no doubt that George was the one to blame for the accident. The car he was driving hit another car and caused it to veer off the road and into a river.

The owner of a car is not responsible for accidents involving that car when the owner is not driving. For instance, I might be using my husband's car to go to Scotland while he stays in Oxford with a friend, and then I most unfortunately run into a cow in Aberdeenshire. My husband is not responsible for my running into a cow, is he? I am; I was the driver.

Similarly, if someone had stolen his car (or in the case of George and Alice's car, taken it without the owner's consent) and then ran into a cow, my husband as the car's owner would not be responsible for the accident. The thief would be, as driver.

Full stop.

The driver is the one who carries the can, no matter what a passenger may be doing; if it is unsafe to continue driving, he ought to pull in to the side and stop driving until whatever the passenger is doing has been resolved. Similarly if a wasp has got into the car and he is terrified of it, he should pull in, not drive along batting at it without attending to where he's putting half-a-ton or more of fast-moving metal.

Just incidentally, since George did not have Alice's consent to drive her car, he will not have been insured to drive it and he may have a hard time getting insurance hereafter, and if he can get it then it will have a very high premium. And it will be his insurnce premium that goes through the roof, not that of Alice.

I feel like we’ve had these debates already!!

So do I, but the victim-blaming continues. Alice is the victim here: her car was stolen and she was accused of dangerous driving when she had not been driving it.

Who was blaming Alice?

George did cause the accident.

Stop blaming Alice. She was passed out but you have no idea if she was going to drive or not. The fact is she was NOT driving the car, George was. He drove the car without permission. He crashed the car. Then blamed in on Alice for months. Alice went through turmoil for months, not just a day or to. He was never going to confess until forced to. If i remember I think Alice came close to suicide.

I hate this blaming Alice. It feels to me like the " well, what does she expect going out wearing thaat short skirt and getting drunk ' ie she asked for it.

Brefugee
Who was blaming Alice?

You want a list? Start with Harrison, and the police, on air, and then add all the people here saying that poor little Georgy-porgy wasn't to blame, he was just trying to do Alice a favour by stealing her car, and it wasn't his fault at all, no, no, it was Alice's because she ought not to have tried to get out to be sick she should have spewed up her guts in her car instead.... And if that isn't blaming the victim, I (in the words of Ian Hislop) am a banana.

Incidentally, when did George "risk his life" to save anyone? He swam in a river. So did Mick, so did Alistair, so did Denise; yet somehow people don't fall down in front of them about it and worship them for risking their lives.

Because they didn't, particularly, any more than George did.

Meh, I feel like Alice has had a really easy life tbh and gets away with pretty bad behaviour That she can be blamed for!

It was an accident and I don’t think blame needs to be apportioned. It was the framing Alice that was the issue.

in fact - do we know that mick wasn’t going too fast if he had to swerve and not do emergency stop etc

If there is one thing for sure it is that Alice WAS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT ACCIDENT. The ownership of a car does not mean you are responsible for an accident which happens when somebody else is driving it without your consent (or, given how drunk she was, knowledge either chances are).

Other bad stuff she has done in other circumstances doesn't make her responsible for the accident. Nor does anything Mick may or may not have done. Nor does the camber of the road or the width of the bridge or any other factor whatever.

I dislike Alice, have done for years, but victim-blaming is behaviour I find unpleasant no matter whether I find the victim unpleasant as well!

There’s plenty she can be blamed for. Not sure we need to rake over the accident tbh

I just find the writing and storytelling is really poor bits a hard listen

Agreed about the writing....

ah right.
Well i don't blame her entirely, but she was the direct cause.
And she has never ever apologised for trying to get out of a moving car, IIRC?

tbh it is difficult for me to discuss Alice because the way her story is being handled is very difficult for me to swallow. As the relative of someone who behaved like her but my feelings and everything are being constantly minimised by their support network, among admonitions to forgive and forget, it is fairly upsetting.

For sure George caused the crash, but she was a hugely contributing factor to it and I'd like some acknowledgement of that. From Her and all her coterie of unquestioning supporters. Am aware that i am fairly irrational in this feeling.

My current issue around George is that he nearly caused Mick's death but according to George and his granny Mick should totally pretend that is all over and forgotten and forgiven. Meanwhile, George is holding a grudge against his own grandparents that will stretch to the heat death of the universe.

Brefugee
Meanwhile, George is holding a grudge against his own grandparents that will stretch to the heat death of the universe.

Or at least until he has milked it for every scrap of advantage he can get out of making them feel as if it's their fault he's a lying, thieving scrote with a massive chip on his shoulder, and getting his dimwitted girlfriend to blame them for his having committed two crimes and been imprisoned as a result.

I feel that George should take the blame for the miscarriage (except that it may not have been caused by the accident). The choice not to have the baby should have been Fallons to make. I think it would have made a great storyline if she’d been a bit further along and wanted an abortion but been too scared to broach it with Harrison (or even tell him she were pregnant). George could then have been blamed for the miscarriage, but Fallon been secretly grateful to him whilst everyone else hated him (secret conflicting feelings). Would have been a great side story.

It was tiresome enough as it was. What I find weird was George seemingly being more upset about - as perceived - having caused Fallon to lose the baybee than about anything else, as if that were something catastrophic in his mind. Surely he’d be slightly revolted at the notion of his perfect lovely unattainable Fallon hosting Plodspawn.
it’s such a pity we didn’t hear ‘Actually, George, you did me a favour’ ( which I can hear in Fallon’s voice now, dammit.
I suppose it’s just part of the Ambridge Male Baby Obsession thing.

I blame the cow that keeps getting run over in Aberdeenshire, also if the Doctor had told Fallen on her own that she had lost the bubby would she have said anything to Harrison in the first place. But this was raked over months ago and I think some people left because it got a bit heated about Alice's fault.
I think Neil dosnt feel guilty about George as he had his number years ago. He just dosnt like Susan getting upset so he just has a little moan and then let's Susan get on with it. But he is always on his guard where George is concerned.
I don't understand why everyone had wrapped Alice in cotton wool (especially her dad and aunt). I don't understand how she has joint custody of Martha either, let's be fair she can go off the rails at any time and it would surly take a good few years before you could think about trusting her, not just a couple of months. She is really a nasty drunk too.

@RegimentalSturgeon
plodspawn 😂

Harrison’s whimpering and plaintiff moaning was unforgivable tbh

A victim of the SWs' character-mangling storylines.

I don't think we need to rake over the whys and wherefores of the accident again. The point is that George seems to have come out of prison as entitled as he went in - he now has Amber backing him up as well as his mum. His "I've done my time - isn't that enough" schtick doesn't really wash when you are back living among your victims, some of whom are still traumatised. A bit of contrition wouldn't go amiss.. It looks as if he might yet be called in to help out at Bridge Farm... I can't decide yet whether we are looking at a redemption arc or whether he is being set up to be a bad 'un for life.

to be fair to Amber she has been very clear with him that she has a job to do, that she has to work really hard at her "influencing" job and she has to earn the perks it brings her.

For sure she has weird expectations that he will love the bougie expensive brunch in the way she does, but that will be a learning curve for both of them.

And please please please can this be a lovely relationship for Chris and banish Alice to a coparenting past? (sorry, but i do loathe Alice, her voice, her attitude her everything - i know I'm irrational)

Yes, we can be pretty sure that there was nothing wrong with Mick's driving, by virtue of the fact that he wasn't charged, while George was not only charged but pleaded guilty. The traffic police would have been all over that accident, and would have checked things like tyre marks and the damage done to work out the vehicles' respective speeds and how much time Mick had to react to the car veering onto his side of the road.