Archers thread #181: Panto Week's behind you! Was that the nadir? Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd enjoy playing badminton with Derek Fletcher, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Will it be onwards and upwards for TA now, or do we fear even more of these special weeks (Martin and a Christmas Carol, Scam Week, Panto Week) and sudden reinventions of long-established characters (Neil)? I for one have had enough of all that. I want a quiet period of change counting in the village shop, farming talk with suitable sound effects and village gossip over coffee at Terum or a pint in The Bull. Slowly developing storylines featuring the full cast, not a subset for a few weeks with no mention of the others, and all behaving in character. Not holding my breath we'll get any of that, though!

Over to you.

Will they be able to get a mortgage on the property now? Is it insurable?

Did Kirsty say she wasn't waiting for the insurance company - she'd got professional cleaners in herself and was putting down new floors. How's she paying for that?

Lacking heritage and dynasty and any connection whatsoever to Ambridge land, it would be impossible for Joy and her awful boyfriend to replicate the senior Grundys.

I wasn’t listening with attention last night - but would welcome any light thrown on Kirsty’s income. Obviously she has the rent Helen pays for the Beechwood house - which must be considerably more than the mates’ rates thruppence she presumably pays Roy for a room in his house. But I’ve never had any clear idea of the financial set up of her rewilding job. It seemed at the time that her brief marriage was a profitable venture, leaving her with a huge asset - but she’s such a Moaning Minnie that it’s hard to quantify.

I think Natasha and Tom will want a discount on the house. Gazundering storyline.

@TottersBlankly is quite right - Joy and Mick are nothing like the Grundys. A Grundy could only dream of owning a Beechwood house (indeed Emma very much did, but had to settle for a caravan in Grundys field). They are locked out of owning land despite farming it for years and that is their tragedy. Despite this the Grundys are woven into the very fabric of Ambridge in a way Joy and Mick never can be. It’s the reason why plots involving Joy (and now Mick) are of minimal interest - they have no hinterland. If Joy and Mick were to upsticks tomorrow they would not leave a trace, it would be impossible to unpick the Grundys from Ambridge. It’s the reason why the Rochelle storyline failed to float - while she worked well as an intriguing is she/isn’t she real character her actual arrival made no more impact than the Airbnb scam victims because she came from the distant North where Ambridge folk go to disappear. No one cares what happens there.

I don’t care about Joy no matter how hard the SWs try and push her, and that goes x 2, if not x 3 now that the wholly abysmal Mick seems to come with her as a package.

It’s odd how they are forcing joy and mick upon us by making sure they are part of all the SL

new characters work better when introduced organically

the Maliks are better because they have a purpose (dr, friend to Henry, whatever Zainab is) and I can see them as long term characters - although the sw really need to tone down the race and religion aspects and stop treating the listeners like idiots. Muslim characters in a soap - well it’s hardly groundbreaking

but then they do some of that patronising stuff with Usha as well I suppose

I think the ridiculous “let me recap what you were telling me about Ramadan” scene was the straw that broke the camel’s back for me. Utterly implausible and silly, and so patronising for listeners. Meanwhile when has there been a sympathetic Christian character? Shula’s a wally, so is Harrison, and Rob’s final evil act was his manipulative conversion.

Totally agree re the Ramadan storyline, so unbelievably patronising. Fed up of being treated like a small child.

Sympathetic Christians - all the vicars I can remember have been well-meaning and generally quite well liked in the village. Alan, Janet Fisher, Gerry Buckle, Richard Adamson (I think he left around or not longer after the time I started listening). I may have missed one.

I’ll have to re listen but I thought Lynda commented on how long Ramadan was compared to Lent. And fasting for a couple of days is hardly joining in.

Give me strength (to carry on listening).

I don't mind the Ramadam storyline - we have had endless giving stuff up for Lent stories over the years (including gossip one year if I am not mistaken?) For every person who finds the explanation patronising I'm sure there will be some listeners among my mum's age group who know nothing about it (the Laurences of this world!) With the disappearance of Peggy and Jill, the death of Jennifer and the departure of Shula, churchgoers are becoming few and far between in Ambridge which is possibly quite representative of the current state of the CofE (particularly in view of recent revelations). Alan seems to have gone AWOL.

I may have missed one.

Robin, @Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g?

It’s entirely possible I’ve invented him - but iirc he was less memorable as an active church leader than as Caroline’s love interest. My main recollection was of her horror at the prospect of holidaying in a tent with him and his daughter. And her realisation, whilst lying in a hospital bed seriously injured after the Mark accident, that she and Robin really weren’t suited and she’d have to break off the engagement.

That confused me. Surely if you give something up for Lent/fast for Lent, you do it for all of Lent, i.e. Ash Wednesday to Holy Saturday, barring Sundays? And this year, Lent and Ramadan mostly overlap (except Lent is longer).

I thought Lynda offering to fast for a few days and sounding patronising was completely in character, tbf. She really is a horror, and I don't understand why nobody has punched her in the nose yet. Every time she heads off on thespian exploits, I cringe...I get that she is experienced in putting together am-dram productions, often at short notice, but the way she talks about "thee-ah-tah", including around professionals, just makes me suffer vicarious embarrassment for her (there's a great German word, "Fremdschämen", for that!).

As for putting together a show in a week, it is possible: I've done so numerous times in the context of student opera courses. But in those situations, the students usually have their parts well ahead of time (though they are never off-book by the time they arrive, and we all pretend that we don't know (because we were the same as students) and that we believe they just need to take lots and lots of notes in their scores...), and the participants are available for rehearsals full-time. And it's still always a panic until the end! So the Panto was just about possible, but I thought the most unrealistic part of that was having so many people volunteer/be available to be arm-twisted into volunteering for the cast!

I suppose instead of “sympathetic Christians” I should have said “sympathetic treatment of an aspect of the Christian faith”. We don’t get a little insert of what it means to read the Bible/pray/receive communion. The “giving something up for Lent” is trivial cultural stuff.

<slaps head> Of course! He was also a vet. Then I think there was a reorganisation of parishes (realistic touch, from my limited knowledge of such matters) and the new vicar (Janet?) had to cover a much larger number of parishes but lived in the vicarage in Ambridge. We had the rather good storyline of Peggy Woolley refusing to attend St Stephen's because she didn't believe in the ordination of women.

We've had a passion play, the baptism of Harrison and the conversion of Knob. Not to mention the ordination of Shula and numerous inserts featuring sermons from Alan, nativity plays, blessing of the animals and watching the dawn come up at Easter. Christianity gets a fair crack of the whip and is generally portrayed sympathetically and as an everyday part of village life.

@Trivium4all actually on reflection I think you’re correct, Lynda’s patronising attitude to Ramadan is in keeping with her character.

Kirsty is so wet.

@Bruisername I think Zainab's purpose is in a future love triangle with Chelsea and Ben.

I thought Zainab had already torpedoed that. Ben is so wet and she seems sensible enough to have noticed that pretty quickly!

i caved in and listened to Sunday's episode.

I want to take Natasha by the shoulders and shake her shouting "PANCAKE RACES ARE A THING!"

i probably will give it another week's worth of miss because the whole thing was infuriating

Also, why hang on the coat-tails of the Bull's event rather than starting planning for their own Mothers' Day and Easter events?

it is infuriating. This time of year is full (CHOC A BLOC i tell ya) of events for: pancake day, for lent, for mother's day, for Easter, for spring, for mad march hares...

it is as though Award Winning Businesswoman Natasha has never ever been anywhere ever.

I wonder, do the SW think that actual farmers talk as though they've just done a marketing course and swallowed the whole presentation, laptop and all? I sort of get it from the younger generation, who may have had this stuff in college, although even there, I wonder if they would really talk like that to each other, as opposed to someone they're selling something to. But from the older ones, it just doesn't ring true for how farmers of my acquaintance speak about their businesses. So, from me a very skeptical, "Oh, aye?"

I’m surprised Kirsty could find and organise a trusted and reliable firm to replace her floors so quickly. We’ve been doing a house renovation and believe me, we wouldn’t have been able to get anything of that scale sorted in a week or so (maybe if you had a friendly builder you could call on - but he’s in prison, iirc 🤭)