Archers thread #181: Panto Week's behind you! Was that the nadir? Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd enjoy playing badminton with Derek Fletcher, or other unusual views.

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For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Will it be onwards and upwards for TA now, or do we fear even more of these special weeks (Martin and a Christmas Carol, Scam Week, Panto Week) and sudden reinventions of long-established characters (Neil)? I for one have had enough of all that. I want a quiet period of change counting in the village shop, farming talk with suitable sound effects and village gossip over coffee at Terum or a pint in The Bull. Slowly developing storylines featuring the full cast, not a subset for a few weeks with no mention of the others, and all behaving in character. Not holding my breath we'll get any of that, though!

Over to you.

Haven't heard last night's but on the important point of pastry I can well believe that it's cheaper as well as easier to buy puff pastry ready-made. It takes ages to make it from scratch and involves a huge amount of butter, which is incredibly expensive now. If you cost in the chef's time it has to be more economical to get a block of pastry made in a factory by machines. A lot of ready-made puff pastry nowadays has palm oil rather than butter, ostensibly because then it's OK for vegans, but I'm sure it's actually because it's cheaper. It's also environmentally disastrous so I seek out an all-butter variety and just have it a lot less often.

Yes, Zainab has A levels. She was all set to go to university this year until she decided she didn't want to. Quite right too if she wasn't sure about it.

Khalil showed little love and no understanding for animals in his ridiculous idea of lying to his mother about wanting a cat and borrowing Hilda. His mother just showed stupidity. It would be extremely traumatising for a cat.

He's also very entitled too- turning up with no warning at Brookfield expecting David, who he barely knows, to help him with his homework.

His sister is just rude and boring.

I'd like Zainab to be the secret awesome cricketer. I really like Khalil and Zainab, but then I'm quite a lot like them

I feel it's important that they're there to show their demographic has to deal with issues (racism, faith) that none of the other teenagers in the village have had to deal with. (I don't think racism was mentioned with Noluthando.)

Actually it probably is unusual that everyone in the village is so open minded that they don’t care about someone race or sexuality. I assume it’s because the sw aren’t keen to paint anyone in a negative light like that

I really won’t be able to bear it if we are exposed to a lot more village cricket

I assume Henry and khalil will be the future of the team

Haven't heard last night's but on the important point of pastry I can well believe that it's cheaper as well as easier to buy puff pastry ready-made

This thread is absolutely at its best when it is discussing issues such as making/buying puff pastry and whether whiting is an adequate substitute for cod! Love it!

I really won’t be able to bear it if we are exposed to a lot more village cricket

I quite enjoy a bit of village cricket but, like mime, it doesn't really lend itself to radio, does it?

That's true, even when the storyline was about Roy the racist, they ensured he had a complete change of attitude and became an upstanding citizen.

As far as I recall no one said anything whatsoever about Alan's daughter being half black.

true on roy

i suppose it comes down to a morality tale and the baddie getting their comeuppance

whereas it would be more realistic for someone to make snide comments that are just the side of the line that makes it difficult for others to see it other than ‘that’s just him - don’t take it to heart’. Or just long term hearing the discomfort of the white characters who put up with it but also those that don’t.

or a character with a ‘I just say what think’ attitude

even those with unpleasant character traits (Lynda, Susan, Helen, Justin for eg) are exceedingly tolerant

I guess that’s the bit I find odd - there’s currently no room for a long running prejudiced character so we’ll get one dropped in

perhaps Lynda will deal with him by the village putting on an amdram production to shame him and then drum him out of town and they will all say Hoorah! As he scampers off with Monty snapping at his heels

Someone must have said something, or how would we know?

I actually thought that Laurence’s idiotic and offensive comments were more believable than the fact that nobody in a small rural village would mention in passing that the new GP and her family are Muslim.

Not that I think the countryside is a hotbed of racism but it’s crazy to ignore the fact that rural villages tend towards an older, white population as TA so often seems to do.

As far as I remember Alan himself talked about his late wife having been black when he first came to the village, no other character mentioned it.

I don't live in a rural area but all my clients do. I didn't find the comments particularly believable.

Why would the villagers mention in passing that the Malik family is Muslim?

@IHaveAlwaysLivedintheCastle in the same way they might if the new GP was Australian or Sikh etc., because it would be relatively unusual in a rural area.

I have always lived in villages and this is the sort of thing people tend to comment on when new people move in or take up a local job.

I’ve also come across a few Laurence’s, most of whom seem to think they’re being funny.

Just caught the end again and Lynda referred to them as the children

are we supposed to see Zainab as a child or a young adult? I thought that was odd wording by Lynda

no doubt Lynda will sock it to the man

I think it would be more plausible to pussy foot around where they had come from/ cultural background/ where they really come from than speculate about their religion.

Well of course, the normal thing would be for villagers to have a discussion about what their background might be rather than nobody even refer to it

In any event both Zainab and Khalil are very common Arabic names, even in my neck of the woods I’d be surprised if at least some people didn’t know that.

I'd be up for a racism SL but it would be far more realistic if it was (a) more subtle, and (b) didn't involve a blow in character like Laurence who has already been established to be a complete idiot and who is not an Ambridge resident.

I don't dislike Khalil - he has the beginnings of a personality and has the potential to develop into a worthwhile character.

But I can't stand Zainab who is just needlessly rude to everyone. I'd have no problem with her being arsey with Laurence but rudeness is just her default behaviour with everyone. She's been rude since she was first introduced in her interactions with Ben and she's been consistently rude to everyone ever since (for no obvious reason in almost every case). For example, why was it necessary for her to suggest that Chelsea sleeps around?

I'm a very polite person myself and I really loathe gratuitous rudeness. (Not to be confused with appropriate assertiveness which I don't have any problem with.)

Totally agree, surely Jolene/Kenton don’t just pay the invoices without looking to see what they’re for, and noticing whiting and pastry. Once again the SW are showing their ignorance of business whether small or large. Makes any such storyline unbelievable.

I figured they were using Laurence as the racist so that they didn’t have to completely rewrite any of the existing characters’ personalities (again!).

I agree. And also so that they can easily get rid of him and then move on to another PSA.

ThoroughlyModernNotMillie
As far as I recall no one said anything whatsoever about Alan's daughter being half black.

Alice did say something about people like her not being interested in horses which was taken as being about her having a black mother, couldn't possibly have been because she was a townie. I suspected at the time that Alice had not herself realised that her anti-townie remark could be (and was!) taken as being anti-black until it was too late and Amy was doing her block about it.

(It was absolutely fine at a later date for Amy to be consistently vile to Alice over several weeks for the evil offence of wanting to get away from depending on her father by joining the RAF.)

Zainab’s got a right shilling on herself.

Next week we'll find out that Neil the cross dressing foundling is also black.

But that wouldn't be any good to them, because nobody has ever been nasty to him about it.

Exit, "got a right shilling on herself" is a wonderful phrase but I don't really know what it means. Is it like "thinks she's all that and a bag of chips"?

Don’t you remember him being beaten up outside that pub that time? And Susan’s parents disowning her?