Archers thread #180: Burgeoning backstories! Continuity, what’s that? Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you think it's a great idea for Helen and the boys to lodge with Tom, Natasha, Seren and Dippity*, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/5244480-the-archers-spoilers-thread-10-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

*Can't remember who coined this, but it's genius.

I was strongly tempted to use one or both of the posts suggested for the title of this thread on the last thread, but went for something a bit briefer. However, they're brilliant and will kickstart this thread very nicely, so here they are:

@Sidebeforeself: Beavers, bridge, bunny boilers and busybodies - it's all a load of bollocks!

(I couldn't agree more!)

@DeanElderberry: I don't usually speculate much on the appearance of characters, but do wonder what it is about Miranda that is bringing out the chest-thumping silverback in Brian and Justin? One little bridge game and the course of Ambridge rewilding is set. The face that launched a thousand beavers.

Over to you!

@WagnersFourthSymphony I’m beginning to wonder whether the 630pm slot “comedy” writers have been reassigned to TA as this week is equally painful.

Yes, the same thought had crossed my mind. That, or AI.

I suppose we should be thankful they haven’t introduced a live audience with the attention seeking ‘distinctive’ loud laughs. Listened to the 11pm comedy last night and switched off because the audience had a few

(And as for the custard tart episode - who uses tinned custard in a custard tart? Just who? Do the SWs even know what a custard tart is?)

Susan said to Tony that both she and Tracy had said deliberately hurtful things to each other. As far as I could tell, the worst Tracy aimed at Susan was that she had bought the custard, which Susan refuted.

I agree that last night's SW doesn't seem to know what a custard tart actually is, if they were picturing some sloppy comic pratful prop.

Buttons is usually played by a young man. Traditionally the Principal Boy was played by a woman but I think this is less common now.

Our local theatre (but not am dram despite what I am about to say) has a slightly over middle-aged over weight local drafted in each year to play characters like buttons although he’s often in drag too. He is absolutely brilliant and carries the show and is the main draw so can perform outside of the panto casting stereotypes. I’m not sure I can see mick and his smelly feet pulling off buttons without coming across slightly creepy, especially after the experience of his Father Christmas.

There is a local am dram group currently putting on a panto and an another local theatre is advertising a ‘summer panto’. I love panto but do feel there is a time and a place (Christmas or shortly thereafter, with children in tow).

Alice as Cinders? She's within a couple of years of 40. They must have someone young in Ambridge. Having so little gumption that one spends 20 years of adulthood sitting in the ashes surely leaves one beyond the powers of even a top of the range fairy wand.

And as for the custard tart episode - who uses tinned custard in a custard tart? Just who? Do the SWs even know what a custard tart is?^^

They bloody should do. After all, Helen knows what proper custard is.

The principal boy is usually played by a young woman, so that should be Prince Charming. I don't think Buttons needs to be, but it probably depends on the adaptation in question.

How many more times is Linda going to wave her wand and something magic happens?

Are the SWs on glue?

Are we now, on this thread, drawn in to the whole bloody meta thing by being, effectively, the audience going BOOOO?

What are we going to do when TA dies? We’ve all got to know each other, we’ve got a good chat group going. Can it survive as a general chat group or a TA nostalgia group?

I wonder how far back the BBC could go with old recordings? I could be tempted to start again from the beginning.

Can someone patiently explain to me why Vince, who AFAIK has signed up half his workforce to go to the panto, is now sabotaging it? Are the staff not coming to this panto then? And If they aren’t then who on Earth is?

Vince is the pantomime villain. He's behind you! Booooo! And a nasty piece of work.

Lynda said the Felpersham Players (?) had agreed to promote the panto on their website. Surely no one's expecting people to pay to see it?

We could carry on regardless. Like the Mouldies (remember them?) but stay on MN rather than doing an epic flounce.

I wonder how far back the BBC could go with old recordings? I could be tempted to start again from the beginning.

Absolutely love the idea of a Vintage Archers listening thread, @NetballHoop. It would potentially be fun even if TA survives …

I like that idea!

I wonder if someone would mind explaining what a 'meta' thing is, please? I read chemistry at university and 'meta' had a specific meaning, obviously different from a meta pantomime.

And what is 'jumping the shark'? Not hurdling a sub-standard vacuum cleaner...

I have been lurking on these threads in/out for a while having listened to The Archers for at least 10 years.

I have absolutely had enough. I've actually deleted the podcast. There have been a few things but this panto storyline has just tipped me over the edge.

I was losing it at the Leonard E-bike storyline; seemed so far fetched but somehow this is worse. Like an insult.

@muddyford - I recall giving a talk on Metalepsis as part of my MA … But just had to google for the most apposite wording:

A paradoxical contamination between the world of the telling and the world of the told …

Searching for ‘Metalepsis narratology’ will give you everything you could possibly want. (Won’t link because it may say the link is insecure, which would be off-putting.)

Meta in Greek just means beyond. So metadrama is anything that draws attention to the fact that it's make believe rather than trying to pretend it's real, it goes beyond drama. E.g. explicit acknowledgement that the actors are actually actors and not their characters, that the audience exist (possibly directly addressing the audience), talking of the actors' roles in other plays (e.g. Mick having always wanted to be on stage with Berwick Kaler), a lot of play-within-a-play stuff. Pantos are usually a hotbed of metatheatre, so a panto within another show is probably the SW's dream come true.

Jumping the shark is when a long-running show (usually a TV show, but I guess it has spread to radio) strays so far away from its original genre, characterisation, and story arc that it becomes utterly ridiculous and discordant. It often happens gradually and then there's a moment when it becomes abundantly clear to everyone that the writers have just run out of ideas and are wandering off into the realms of nonsense. That moment is when the show jumps the shark.

I knew what 'meta' meant but couldn't apply that understanding to this thread. Thank you for explaining so clearly. And the shark thing.

@muddyford 'jumping the shark' has become shorthand for the moment a beloved TV (or in this case radio) show loses the plot completely. It comes from an episode of the cosy US comedy 'Happy Days' when the Fonz, instead of just being a general icon of cool, wearing leather jackets while combing his quiff and saying 'Heeeyyyyyyy' a lot, actually jumped over a shark to win a bet. It’s popularly supposed that marked a low point from which the show never recovered - not quite true, but you get the general idea.

Much more info here

ETA - x-posted with Fink!

muddyford
And what is 'jumping the shark'? Not hurdling a sub-standard vacuum cleaner...

It is a reference to a television programme with a character called The Fonz or Fonzie in it; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumpingtheshark

Edited to add Heh! and I watched in too much horrified fascination and two or more people got in ahead of me!

@NetballHoop me too, I would actually love to start from the beginning rather than put up with this rubbish - is this possible somehow?

Afaic the point of this thread is the delightful diversions that start from a discussion of the archers

does everyone hear listen to radio 4 a lot? We could have a general R4 thread to get the diversions started