Archers thread #175: Crime, punishment and kittens. Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that your current highlight is the kitten naming, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

As I am posting this on Sunday morning at a point where some omnibus listeners won't have caught up with this week's events, I've kept the title less spoilerish than I might have done. Below this point, everything broadcast to date is of course fair game, so be warned!

Of course the main interest for most us at the moment is indeed the kitten naming competition. Isn't it? No?

Oh well, since you insist ...

How do we think George is going to cope now? Whither the Grundy and Horrobin clan? Will Lilian choke on her G&T (please)? Will Kenton get septicaemia from a kitten scratch? Will Alice die of sanctimoniousness? Will Fallon spend the rest of her life with the appalling Harrison and his unfulfulled longing for a behbeh? Will Adam and Will come to blows in the Bridge Farm packing shed?

Over to you!

Rather like playing football!

I think Lotttie already has or will develop a crush on Ian.

It’s hard to believe Brad is 18/19. He seems incapable of making a decision about anything on his own. Why would Jazzer or Tracey’s opinion on the prison visit matter. He’s an adult for goodness sake. When I was that age my parent’s opinions were largely irrelevant (because I knew everything) which is the way vast majority of teenagers think.
It’s a pity he only went to Felpersham uni as he desperately needs to cut the apron strings.

He also felt the need to justify visiting George because he’s a mate. He’s also family!

He’s an adult for goodness sake.

Is that really how people see 18/19 year olds? Yes they may decide to go clubbing or order a pizza on Deliveroo without consulting anyone, but, in my experience, if they’re living at home they still need advice on pretty much everything else. And they have so many new experiences and responsibilities to navigate.

To me it seems completely natural that Brad would want help with a situation he hasn’t encountered before.

(I’m pretty sure we’ve wrestled with this question here previously!)

And also Tracy is rather forthright with her opinions, Brad being an adult or not! I can well imagine her trying to put her foot down to stop him going.

It's an odd thing, Totters. When I was 18 I was an adult and perfectly capable of making all my own decisions and managing without interference from parents. Somehow or other, things had changed by the time my own children were 18 and I felt they still needed plenty of advice.

So was I but I would still chat things through with my parents. Still do and I’m middle aged!!

what’s the mark twain quote about parents learning so much

Have to admit I was still very enmeshed with my parents at 18 /19 - and repeatedly made terrible decisions when they were too far away to discuss things with.

Well perhaps my view will change when my son and daughter are 18 but I still think of them as children:)

I just remember that when I was 18 I had left home for university, had a PT job, a driving license and definitely felt like an adult. I don’t remember consulting my parents about much (but we were not very close so perhaps that was a factor). When I graduated I moved to France and never lived with my parents again. I didn’t know anyone in their 20s who did.

Fast forward to today and so many young people in their 20s seem to be stuck between childhood and adulthood because of the COL crisis, the impact of Covid, MH issues etc and just have not been able to hit the ‘independence’ milestones my generation did a couple of decades ago. A lot of my colleagues are in the 22 - 30 age bracket and a surprisingly high number still live at home, are taking medication to deal with anxiety/panic attacks and some have told me they’ve accepted they will never own a home. They went to university but when you graduate with £50k of debt it definitely takes the shine off.

Here you go.

It may be the generation born after WWII who are the exception, not the current generation. My mother lived at home after she left school until she married. My father didn't, but only because he had to move around the country for his job. Fairly typical, I think. By the time I left school it had become far more common for young people to go off to university or some other form of higher/further education or professional training, and most of them never went back. We seem now to have reverted to the older ways.

I was like @Eastie77Returns. I went off to university at 18 in 1972 and, although I had always had an excellent relationship with my parents, I didn't feel I needed their advice.

I think this was because their generation, who were teenagers during the War, seemed to me to have had completely different life experiences. If I had wanted to know how to navigate streets in the Blackout or how to eat well on rations, they would have been the first people I would have asked. However, my life was so different to theirs at the same age and the kind of things I might have wanted advice on - sex and drugs and rock'n'roll - were just totally outside their experience. The Pill, for example, completely changed women's sexual behaviour once women no longer had to worry about unwanted pregnancies. It felt as though my peers and I had to develop our own our ways of navigating a new environment safely.

I always felt that the gulf between me and my DC's generation was so much narrower than that between me and my parents. I was therefore convinced that I had unlimited invaluable advice to share with my DC if only they had appreciated how remarkably wise and experienced I was - they didn't!!!

Both my kids are definitely in the 14yo part

Unofficial drone deliveries to prison come up in the new Rebus book!

I think also it was more difficult to be in touch. Once I was st uni, I could phone home whenever I wanted, as long as I wrapped up, armed myself with coins and got to a phone box. Wrote lots of letters, but obviously there's a delay there. I had to be independent and look after myself, mostly. It's very different with mobile phones and constant availability. Although Brad is also living at home.

Anyone who thinks the average 18 year old is independent need only look at the difference in outcomes for care-experienced young people, who are pretty much chucked out of the system to fend for themselves at 18 (although it's got a bit better recently, not much), compared to those of their cohort who can still rely on a parental safety net.

Bit children who have grown up on a family should have been taught about life, cooking, budgeting etc from their parents before they leave home. It is this that children in the care system have missed out on.

I think that visiting George, who is a cousin once removed would fall under the category of "family matters" to be discussed with family.

Was loitering around the Ashmolean earlier today. Saw this.

Hot Girl Summer. Or maybe not.

Did it mention the blocking that now goes on, and not being allowed to use a drone within 400 metres of a prison?

That's part of it. Children in care are disadvantaged on many fronts. But even those who have been in long-term foster care, where they might have been taught the same skills, do worse when they leave.

I saw a Gwen John at the weekend in Birmingham, but I was confused by it being labelled as Gwendolen Mary John, even while I was thinking, "that's like a Gwen John" (because it was...)

They let me out in public and everything!

I suspect that's mainly to do with a wide array of socio-economic factors and ACE's rather than apron strings being cut at 18...

I was in the Army stopping the Soviet Army rolling their tanks over the north German plain at that age

They should have, but I was at uni with people who were clueless about laundry, cooking, cleaning... even boiling an egg or heating a tin of beans was beyond the skills of a first year in one of my uni houses. I doubt it's changed much. For all my mother's faults, she did ensure we were capable of running a house by age 18, but that certainly isn't everyone's experience, whatever their background.

Oh I meant yo quote the post from 14:45, but I was interrupted by a phone call.