Archers thread #174: God it's lame! But it still limps on. Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you think Ben-meets-Zainab is on a par with Elizabeth-meets-Darcy, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @Bruisername for the title inspiration. She said God it's lame and that seemed to strike a chord with many, for some reason.

I am terrified of wasps and live in fear of encountering a hornet, so that was a tricky episode. I hope that's the last we're going to hear of them, except for confirmation that they've been nuked. [shudder]

So what do we reckon - custodial or suspended sentence for George? Will Clarrie return from Great Yarmouth or will she realise that actually life as a carer for her (presumably disabled) sister is easier than the endless and thankless drudgery at Grange Farm? Will any more tables collapse at the Village Hall?

Over to you!

I was interested that Zainab is on what seems to be an unplanned gap year. What do we think that's about?

Destined to fill in the gap in the Terum, Natasha will end up making her manager because she has a couple of original ideas.

Krish Bassi who plays Khalil is 17 and has just been in a BBC TV series, apparently.

Thinking about it I’m surprised there’s no interior designer residing in Ambridge. I think Lilian has employed one on and off, and there was the comedy redesign of The Bull - but with the Beechwood estate and other executive housing and presumably a post-Covid influx to the village and its surroundings, I would have thought there are enough new households to provide intermittent storylines. No doubt they’d need a wider practice in Borchester as well. Again, like a community nurse they’d go into people’s homes and be privy to all sorts of gossip and hidden drama.

So that might be a path for Ms Malik.

Ah ok. Agree his voice is mature but his actions are not and he comes across as younger

how do all these kids get around the village?

Well, Zainab has a noisy scooter...

Perhaps someone will have a suped up silent one

I’m happy to assume Khalil already had a bike which he brought with him.

And I’m adding Phoenix Rise to my hopelessly long ‘To Watch’ list.

So is Zainab a similar age to Chelsea? That could be interesting - Chelsea doesn’t have any female Ambridge friends of her own age. And Zainab may have had a very different upbringing, with much wider horizons and ambitions than the Horrobin clan. Now Mia has left there is a vacancy for Chelsea Peer/Confidante/Frenemy

The Maliks, for reference, with photo of Azra actress:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/profiles/1ctZhxGqGrTFqJhR3WC7V3L/azra-malik

Yasmin Wilde (Azra):

https://metro.co.uk/2022/09/15/i-changed-my-pakistani-surname-to-make-it-as-an-actor-17308140/

I was thinking if Poppy as well. Do they all just bike around?

I also find it odd that after being introduced to khalil with the pronunciation not having a hard k, all the characters then pronounce it as you read it

when he and azra said it I would have pronounced it ‘halil’ with an attempt at pronouncing the kh correctly but they all say ‘kalil’

I can just about get my head around Azra pronouncing Khalil differently from the white characters, but why does Khalil himself pronounce it 'wrong'? He must know his own name! Is he just inured to all non-Asians getting it wrong so doesn't bother modelling the other way? He might have a point, to be fair: David can be excused because he only repeated what Khalil himself had modelled, but Alice managed to mess it up having only heard Azra.

Cross-posted with the above. I agree but think Khalil said it the same as David and Alice, not Azra.

I have a friend whose son has an Asian name and it drives her mad because he doesn’t pronounce it properly and seems incapable of making the required sound. So I can see how that happens

Zainab is played by Priyasasha Kumari. Looks like she comes from Wolverhampton so will have the right accent. She's in Waterloo Road, which I don't watch.

Oh! Having looked her up she’s far too dazzling and media/TV connected to linger long in Ambridge, surely? (Which is a bit disappointing.)

I thought this as well. It was disorientating hearing his name mispronounced after the initially correct pronunciation and all within the same conversation (when Alice was there).

I know a Khalil in real life so was thrown by the use of the hard k when the character introduced himself to David. Why is he stating his own name incorrectly?!

Mispronunciation of Asian (and other non-British names) happens all the time and a lot of the people involved (especially the older generation) have adopted English sounding nicknames to save their British neighbours and colleagues the bother of learning how to pronounce their names correctly. At my very rural GP surgery all the doctors with Asian names are referred to by abbreviations (eg Dr Hari and Dr San) - and refer to themselves in the same way. It really irritates me that people are too lazy to learn the correct pronunciation of foreign sounding names. It's so rude IMO.

I’ve been pronouncing my own name less than perfectly for six decades. Unless I move permanently to the country from which it originates, that’s unlikely to change. (Not through lack of willing - it sounds much prettier using an accent or language I don’t possess.)

British people tend to be very bad at learning other languages. 50+ years ago I noticed that my classmates seemed to be self-conscious about pronouncing French correctly. I think 11 was too late to start learning.

In defence of the British, being able to make sounds is finalised at quite a young age so if you physically can’t make the noise then you can’t pronounce the name correctly

i have a Portuguese colleague who was saying it’s pretty impossible for us to say certain names because we just can’t make the right noise

in the same way we can’t expect a lot of people to say ‘th’ or Japanese people to say ‘r’

editing to add the rolling ‘r’ in German which you need to learn to do from a young age!

as long as people are making an attempt to pronounce the name correctly I think that’s all that matters. That’s why Alice saying ‘Kalil’ jarred because that’s clearly not what she heard

My DC have (young primary aged) friends of non-English heritage and they pronounce their own names differently to how their parents say it, which I always assumed was an accent thing. So, parent is Spanish and says “Laura” and “Olivia” differently to how her daughters, who have midland English accents say it. I wouldn’t say any of them are pronouncing the names wrong, they are just using their voices to say words.

FWIW:
Not unusual in my limited experience for a parent to use one pronunciation for a child's name and the child to use another. My brother moved to France as an adult and now pronounces his name the French way when talking to French people. His sons, who have English names, also use their French variants with their colleagues and neighbours. Seems a normal thing, TBF.

This is true. Pre-verbal babies learn to make the sounds of the language around them so, as adults, non Arabic or Dutch speakers for example, find it difficult to make the sounds required without great effort.

I have quite a simple, one syllable, not uncommon surname also a common place name and speakers of other European languages find it hard to make two of the sounds involved.

VoxPop
Alice not only accepted full responsibility but immediately went into the shop to check Susan and Jim were OK, profusely apologised,

Not on my radio!

The episode of Wednesday 19th May, 2021, ended with the crash of breaking glass and Jim shouting Susan''s name in an alarmed way.

The episode of Thursday 20th started with Brian and Jennifer having driven Alice to the police station the following day at nine in the morning. (Query why did she not drive herself? Still drunk? She was certainly drunk when she arrived at the shop in her car on the previous day and tried to vamp Jim.)

Later that day Alice turned up at Greenacres wanting to see Jim and find out if he was OK. Jazzer threw her out and didn't allow her to speak with Jim.

Meanwhile Brian went to see Neil to try to find out if Susan was going to "press charges" (which would not be in her power to do, but that's what they always say in Ambridge). Alice didn't see Susan; Neil went and read the riot act to Alice later.

So Alice has driven drunk

And as usual it’s up to daddy to fix things