Archers thread #174: God it's lame! But it still limps on. Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you think Ben-meets-Zainab is on a par with Elizabeth-meets-Darcy, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @Bruisername for the title inspiration. She said God it's lame and that seemed to strike a chord with many, for some reason.

I am terrified of wasps and live in fear of encountering a hornet, so that was a tricky episode. I hope that's the last we're going to hear of them, except for confirmation that they've been nuked. [shudder]

So what do we reckon - custodial or suspended sentence for George? Will Clarrie return from Great Yarmouth or will she realise that actually life as a carer for her (presumably disabled) sister is easier than the endless and thankless drudgery at Grange Farm? Will any more tables collapse at the Village Hall?

Over to you!

Lilian and Kenton celebrated G going to prison.
There was a lot of chat about naming the chaton. Khalil's name was mentioned in passing, to remind us he exists.
Emma is in the depths of despondency and Susan was urging her to get up, because what would Keira think if she came back from school and found her mum still in bed.
Emma has not been answering anyone's calls because she wants to keep the line open for George. She's been waiting all day for him to ring.
He finally rings. Rowdy sounds in the background. He tells her he's OK, doesn't answer her question about sharing a cell, replies that food is 'just grub'. Tells her not to worry if he gets cut off. She worries. Rowdy noises increase. He gets cut off.
dum de dum de dum de dum

What have I missed?

Thanks!!

Interesting, @AskingQuestionsAllTheTime - Jolene's happy reaction didn't register with me at all, maybe because I find her one of the more sympathetic characters, maybe just because I was cooking supper and was distracted.

Very good point about the lockdown. Vital, in fact. I'm sure prison conditions are going to be an ongoing feature (including bullying, which rowdy voices implied to me, as well as G's reticence re cell share) and from a dramatic point of view it was great we were hearing George's voice from inside.

Old fag ash and Kenton were celebrating George getting 3 years, not so much Jolene. I really dislike Lil now and her nasty laugh.
Emma was nasty about Alice when she thought she had caused the accident so no excuse there and no matter how badly behaved George is shes always stuck up for him and hit back at anyone who spoke out at him so perhaps she will see that he is not an angel now his inside but I doubt it. Hope Clive dosnt come back he is horrible.

Jolene, it's true, was more in a sulk because of Kenton going on about his apple and cheese pie and the specials board than she was being gleeful about George going to prison.

Emma's speech about staircases was quite poetic. She was telling Susan that she'd always felt they were at the bottom of the staircase but now since George was sentenced she'd discovered there was another staircase below that one, and she's fallen down that one too.

I reckon the SWs have she has been reading too many books.

Jolene and Lilian were just foul. As for Alice and Fallon's statements, talk about rewriting history!

He only got 2. The 1 was concurrent with the 2.

Jolene was fair I felt, of course she is going to be glad the person who nearly caused her daughter to drown is being punished but she wasn't being loud about it and still considering others. Lilian and Kenton on the other hand not exactly very classy as usual. Lillian can be kind but usually only when she's looking after her own, it rarely extends outside of the family.

Phone call didn't exactly do Emma any good did it 😬

Okay, when George was being sentenced it was made plain that the attempt to implicate Harry was important. iirc he was put up to that by Emma and Will - doesn't excuse him for going along with it, but perhaps Em should admit.

And did sanctimonious Lil know or did she not know what happened in that very unsavoury incident with Paul? (assault at least, maybe murder).

@DeanElderberry no, Emma and Will tried to talk George out of fitting up Harry

Sorry what has Lilian and Paul got to do with it?

We still have not explicitly heard about George’s crush on Fallon. Her being the one in the courtroom reading her witness statement was v significant.
Maybe he’ll start writing to her from prison in a stalkerish way?
Also, those who know, what is so bad about being on an under 21s dedicated wing of an adult prison compared to a YOI, far fewer facilities?

Lilian's pious praise of British justice made me ponder on what she has got away with in the past.

Sorry for thinking Emma had gone along with the attempted Harry stitch-up - so that was all George. And I suspect that was an important aspect of his not getting a suspended sentence.

DeanElderberry
Okay, when George was being sentenced it was made plain that the attempt to implicate Harry was important. iirc he was put up to that by Emma and Will - doesn't excuse him for going along with it, but perhaps Em should admit.

Claiming that he thought he saw Harry on the night of the crash was entirely George's own bright idea and Emma was dead against from the moment he said it to her. But when he told Kate about it two days later Will and Emma didn't feel they could say "that's bullshit, he did it himself" to Kate, and Kate insisted that he must go to the police and change his statement to include the "jogger" or Harry that he "saw". Which he did, that same afternoon.

Synopsis for 9th August:
This gives George a 'brilliant' idea: what if he saw someone else there? Will asks scornfully who would be around by the bridge that time of night, and George replies that anyone could have been, while Emma tells him that he'd just be digging himself in deeper. George reckons this could work: what about that bloke she was knocking around with, Harry? Emma says 'No!' but George insists, yes, because Chris told them he was a waste of space, and how the Aldridges blame him for getting Alice back on the drink. He was dead suss about Harry, wasn't he. Will wants him to hang on, but George isn't going to do that: what if he says it was Harry, he saw him running away from the scene? He doesn't even have to say his name, just a bloke that looks like him, give a description and let them work it out for themselves, and it saves both of them: they'll be all over that Harry, and George and Alice are both off the hook.

BBC summary for 9th August
Emma, Will and George discuss Alice’s memory, as Emma starts to get paranoid. She worries about George piling on the lies, but he has an idea to give a statement about seeing someone else near the bridge. George thinks of someone – he could just give a vague description of someone who looks like that Harry (Chilcott) – then George and Alice will both be off the hook.

Sorry, beaten to it: I went and found the relevant stuff and it took a few minutes....

Yes - George did deserve a custodial sentence for that. But I hope something about it helps him to learn and discover some core morality. He has three responsible and decent grandparents, he shouldn't be a total write-off.

Or just more prejudiced victim blaming?

Oh no you don't. Alice was a mess and her relationship with her daughter was already a mess before the accident. For sure it set her back, but the way she and Fallon were framing it, she was fine before. And she wasn't.

I have never ever at any point said George was anything other than the wrong, and I think he should be jailed. But he is not to blame for Alice's poor choices.

I wonder when George comes out how the rest of the villagers will treat him. Imagine he will get a lot of cold shoulders and nastiness, which may make him feel that staying in Ambridge is impossible, and he'll leave, leaving us bereft of Angus Stobie's brilliant acting.
comsidering how many of them have done stupid or illegal things I hope,there isn't too much of a down on him.
Brian and his chemical dumping
Tom taking the blame for Helen's driving accident
lilian supporting wide boy Matt
David shooting the badger
Kenton being a complete nit
Adam 'borrowing' money from Home Farm
and probably more I forget about.
many of them ready to cast the first stone.

These sentencing guidelines are really interesting in relation to perverting the course of justice. Am I correct in reading that if George was not convicted for dangerous driving (he could have argued that the crash was due to a drunken Alice grabbing the steering wheel) then he automatically would not have been able to have been convicted for perverting the course of justice?

As it stands (if we assume he was dangerous driving) I would class it as a c2 offence as the underlyingboffence was not serious and the innocent party was not sent down as a result of the perversion so between 6 months and 1 year.

I think Eddie was right, better legal advice and encouraging him to plead not guilty would have given a much better outcome.

Yes the Harry idea was all George which goes to show he really was happy for someone else to take blame if he could get away with it, even someone who wasn't even there! Thought it was a bit of a silly plot line though as George is smarter than that.

Only a matter of time before Emma loses it and blames someone else for George being in prison. Will either be Alice for being drunk or her parents for convincing her to call police.

I think because they've already done reformed misguided youth with Freddie I have a horrible feeling George will go the other way but I hope not.

Well Freddie had a future set up for him whereas George will think he has nothing

Just reinforcing the haves/have nots divide in the village.

I wonder what will happen now though - will the Grundys all pack in their jobs or something? are the Holier Than Thou Archer clan going to boycott Ed & Emma's business? can Will keep working at Bridge Farm knowing he might run into Adam at any time? Can Emma keep on at the dairy, knowing that dogsbody Adam might be around or needed there?

And what about Alice? she really really needs to go to rehab. Is that going to happen? or is there going to be (yet another) relapse story? (to be fair: IME yes, it is just going to be one relapse after the other and Alice will not be to blame for any of it. And despite what some posters may think: that is not victim blaming)

Am I correct in reading that if George was not convicted for dangerous driving (he could have argued that the crash was due to a drunken Alice grabbing the steering wheel) then he automatically would not have been able to have been convicted for perverting the course of justice?

I don’t think you can be correct, @Samphire44 , because George set it up to appear that someone else had committed an offence. Whether he had done so or not up to that point ( and I would argue that he had, namely taking without consent) is irrelevant.

Yes I think G is not going to reform. He might become a serious far right sympathiser / incel?

Or a religious convert?