Archers thread #174: God it's lame! But it still limps on. Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you think Ben-meets-Zainab is on a par with Elizabeth-meets-Darcy, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @Bruisername for the title inspiration. She said God it's lame and that seemed to strike a chord with many, for some reason.

I am terrified of wasps and live in fear of encountering a hornet, so that was a tricky episode. I hope that's the last we're going to hear of them, except for confirmation that they've been nuked. [shudder]

So what do we reckon - custodial or suspended sentence for George? Will Clarrie return from Great Yarmouth or will she realise that actually life as a carer for her (presumably disabled) sister is easier than the endless and thankless drudgery at Grange Farm? Will any more tables collapse at the Village Hall?

Over to you!

I thought you were going to say Lynda smells of old drawers.🩲.

Urdu, not Arabic, but the same in both. Azra has previously used the occasional Urdu phrase with Adil.

What does usha speak with her brother? I’m sure we’ve heard it when she and Alan went to that celebration a while back

the whole scene when she got back from work was really bizarre. I just don’t get them!!

Hindi

The chocolate croissants I’ve had, tend to be a normal croissant, but with chunks of Belgian chocolate inside that just gets slightly multi, but still with some texture. Really good The croissant pastry itself doesn’t have chocolate in it.

I’m mixed race but grew up with a very middle middle class lifestyle (private school but not a ‘good one’ etc). Historic family heritage )now no money but once upon a time old money) and don’t have much contact with my other heritage. I’ve lived in a variety of places - as an expat outside of the UK, small islands, cities and rural villages. I am recognisably mixed race but my siblings could pass for white. My skin goes another shade darker very time I walk past a window so it’s harder to ‘hide’. My take on Linda based on my life experience was not overt racism but judgements and assumptions quickly made and acted upon. Birds of a feather flock together and it works in all directions. There is always a barrier drawn up by any sort of non conforming or unknown divide, although it may not be distinguishable to a third party. It’s an innate hostility towards something unknown rather than a conscious rejection. She saw a non white kid, probably dressed in ‘city’ clothes (something with a label still distinguishable as not faded or covered in mud, and probably not entirely suitable for the environment he was in) messing with her llamas and jumped to a number of conclusions, piling a whole lot of Lynda on top…. It was overdone for the character though. Normally she takes a snide higher ground and she definitely fell below par here (Lilian’s snorts were particularly delicious though and I loved the insincere apology as much as I loved brads ‘well, first proper offence…’).

I thought Jill’s first scenes had been cut and spliced from old dialogue and the second recorded anew…

I’ve FINALLY caught up with the omnibus and the last 3 nights…

I know I was the one saying I appreciated the balance about alcoholism (and I still do on this thread, so thanks all) but the George/Alice episode was awful. Many others have said about this above v eloquently so I won’t go on about it again, but what a lot of upper class/lower class nonsense, George ‘suddenly’ seeing things clearly, Alice’s focus on how George’s actions were THE thing that had caused all her pain, and just such a simplistic nonsensical way of tying it up on a Sunday. I was quite angry, and I can’t think of other words except it was gross and tasteless. Plus the Alice/Azra visit was just unprofessional and (dare I say it) was telling of Alice’s entitlement.

As with others, thought Brad was lovely, and loved Tracey too, as usual.

Lynda - I can see why the racism conversation happened up thread - I didn’t
hear it that way, even after reading the thread (or perhaps that’s why, in fairness) - just more she is a bit ageist and a snob, and thought he was a townie, but very interested with others seeing it otherwise. I don’t think it would be a bad thing to have a proper storyline about casual/implicit/unconcious racism (I’m too young for the Roy/Usha storyline, not sure if there have been others since?) but tonight’s episode seemed to tie that up neatly with the tagine. I actually enjoyed Azras kids being a bit rude and defensive (‘you’re THAT Lynda’) in their different ways, to her. But then I do love Lynda. And Khalil is a fab actor I think.

Lillian - she was awful to Will and Ed the other night, but I didn’t feel it was out of character for her? She’s prone to reacting, being ridiculous, and then calming down. But then I do love Lillian as well. suffice to say I loved the Lynda/Lillian two hander on Sunday. I think I would probably just tune into 12 minutes of that every night.

Hannah’s back! Had totally forgot her and Stella lived together, I always liked her as a character. Not sure I have processed the weird chat between her and Alice yet to comment.

and yes to those who said they now like Adam now he doesn’t sound permanently exhausted - I laughed out loud at the suggestion he sounds like a career counsellor.

and lastly thanks @Devilsadvocat for the tip about how characters smell - I know you didn’t approve of it but I loved the ideas up thread.

How I long for an ‘and’ in your first line, @Cantsleepdontsleep - rather than a ‘but’.

Oh yes Azra's two are a horrible pair of kids and you would think that they woùld have said " mum thats the lady who was rude"straight away.
I wouldnt have made a tagine or even gone to their house, im mean Azra has been there for months so why a home welcoming gift now. This makes no sense.
Forgot to say Emma Freud also mentioned that she would bring the apple and cheese pie I suppose just to prove that she is an Archer listener, yea right!
Cant wait for this podcast can do with a laugh.

I was saying to the radio, "don't let her in, don't let her in" when Lynda went round. Unknown woman who had been rude, I wouldn't let her in either. And why was Lynda so desperate to know what had been said about her? She doesn't usually care a tuppenny damn what others think or say. Very weird episode.

@Devilsadvocat are they horrible? Both behaved like teens/tweens to me - if anything I think the SW have portrayed them like teenagers out of a playbook several years ago, it felt a bit Enid Blyton to me tbh.

The older one is on a gap year so should be able to cope with social interaction in a reasonably adult manner. Unless there’s something we don’t know about her?

given how she’s been in every scene we’ve heard her she just comes across as rude

normally rude teens are polite to strangers (thinking Kevin and Perry!!)

when will khalil and Henry realise they are neighbours?

also, was there an implication that khalil stands out at school because of his skin colour? I find that very hard to believe but happy to stand corrected as I’m in London

They’ve just been talking about the baby loss certificates on the news - did Harrison get one in the end?

was there an implication that khalil stands out at school because of his skin colour? I find that very hard to believe but happy to stand corrected as I’m in London

Definitely would have stood out at my school, which has a large rural catchment. It's more mixed now thsn it was, but not hugely so. I'm in a new job in Portsmouth, and I've noticed how much whiter the workforce is than my previous Reading-based job was. So I think, depending on where you are in the country, it might be more noticeable, and I can believe Borchester Green is more white. It would definitely be whiter than London.

It felt like that episode was there to establish several things - Azra's kids thought Lynda was being racist, Khalil feels uncomfortable at school (hinting at possibly more racism to come), Alice has given Hannah the go-ahead to make a move on Chris (she's definitely finished with him even if Chris doesn't feel the same). None of it felt entirely realistic to me - taking a tagine round as a peace offering and Alice staying for an impromptu shepherds pie after dropping off a book. I'm not saying any of that wouldn't happen - just that it felt incredibly contrived. Hopefully now the aforementioned facts have been established we can just get on with the actual plot.

You make a very good point - I was not very eloquent last night, but that is exactly what I men. I view myself as white because of the upbringing I have had and forget I do look different - when we were abroad we were very much expat and mixing with white people socially (not exclusively but that was how expat life seemed to be up then, I guess language barriers may have been an issue). When in the UK there weren’t many ethnic minorities where we lived/worked/went to school etc. It’s as I get older I see sudden prejudices/judgements (I still think either word is too strong) come out in me which can be ironic as I realise I am viewing others as I have been viewed. I’ve always assumed I was a bit ugly or weird and blamed myself for being antisocial, but have come to realise it’s actually not that, it’s the invisible curtain drawn by colour of my skin (in my case).

To be clear, not everyone does it and I’ve got some very close friends who did do it. The curtain is easily pulled but I think we all make our first impressions based on appearance and act on them unconsciously.

Yes agreed

also thought the continued references to racism (from the hornets to the ‘R’ word’) seemed very heavy handed and a bit like the sw think they are the first non white people in the village

i’m guessing khalil is goi h to have an incident on the bus and Henry is going to stand up for him (although would be much more interesting if Henry was the perpetrator!!!)

ds was with me last night when I was listening and he hasn’t heard it for a long while and his words were ‘let me guess, there’s going to be a racism sl - isn’t that a bit predictable?’

modern drama does tend to lack subtlety on these issues

‘let me guess, there’s going to be a racism sl

Lots of takeaways for the audience to bear in mind recently

• Littering is BAD
• It’s very rude to be racist
• Native honeybees are imperilled by the invasive and deadly Asian hornet (remember: yellow legs bad, reddish-brown legs good) and upstanding citizens will notify the authorities of any sightings so that the alien can be exterminated.

There will probably be a test.

ds was with me last night when I was listening and he hasn’t heard it for a long while and his words were ‘let me guess, there’s going to be a racism sl - isn’t that a bit predictable?’ That is exactly what it felt like to me. I think it's a reasonable issue to explore especially at the moment I just wish it didn't have to be signalled so far in advance with huge flashing lights and loud alarms.

haha yes exactly this 👏

We're overdue an antiracism SL It's a very long time since Roy Tucker reformed. (Actually, maybe 'reform' isn't the right word in today's circs!) A long time since Kate called Roy out and he grew up a bit. Have we had anything comparable since? I haven't listened with constant attention. Has Usha had to deal with any twattishness, apart from Shula disapproving of her religion?

The problem with writing issues in such a clunky way is that no one takes anything away from it and it just makes you think the sw believe their listeners to be idiots. Are the sw going for racism or Islamophobia? Did we see anything with ardil or did they save it all up for the kids?

Is khalil going to befriend all the old ladies in the village?

and why eggs? Is a fish tagine nice?

I am now imagining a backstory for the SWs

Someone who vaguely remembered that TA used to have a role in agricultural education said to someone on the production side that they should raise awareness about Asian hornets.

Someone else, who has heard some of the debates that rage in biodiversity protection circles claiming that objection to alien invasive species reflects a racist and exclusionary mindset said 'oh, but . . .'

So after endless discussion, they decided to go for an 'Asian hornets bad, Asian (ancestry) people good, racism bad' mash-up. Horrible clunky, and totally out of character for Lynda who has always been an equal-opportunities bossyboots, but more tolerant of teenagers than of adults, and friendly with Usha, Satia, Denise, Adil and probably many other brown Ambridgers that we don't know about.

Shula disapproving of a religious symbol displayed at the vicarage was not twattishness. Maybe she could have handled it better, but Alan and Usha live in a house provided by the CofE.