Archers thread #173: The Fall of the House of Grundy? Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you wish we were hearing more of Pip, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

I chose the thread title to echo one I used three years ago, which is here if anyone fancies a trip down Memory Lane: www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4320618--Archers-thread-130-The-Fall-of-the-House-of-Aldridge-Discuss-The-Archers-here. That was the thread where I caused all sorts of confusion at the start by not starting it before the old thread filled up, but others stepped in, fortunately.

At that point I see Ruairi was heading off to London to start his degree, which he has now finished, with none of us any the wiser about what he studied or where. Perhaps this will finally be mentioned now he's graduating.

And now, over to you!

Shoplifting and then attempting to murder Auntie Mabel.

It was a hyperbolic example to show why having been charged with one crime would not make you immune to being charged with another. "IF" this crime (shoplifting) meant you would not be charged with anything else, then you should shoplift before killing Auntie Mabel. Which is so clearly garbage that I didn't think I'd need to explain it.

Can't be arsed to argue. Listening to TA instead.

I'm not certain that Emma will be charged with anything. I just meant that she and Ed seemed unduly sure that she wouldn't be after only hearing that Will wouldn't be. There are a lot of other ways they could drag the drama out, e.g. she doesn't get a letter at all for another few days, or the police want to talk to her again.

If she were to be charged, I would say it would all hinge on their reported behaviour at the police station, where Will kept schtum and Emma apparently wittered away about anything she'd ever thought, said, or done (and, as per Eddie, really could have done with an expensive lawyer - or any lawyer - to advise her when to shut up). It's entirely possible that she incriminated herself in a way that didn't pull Will down with her. e.g. 'I knew I should have reported him earlier, but he's my son, I just didn't know what to do for the best. He's only a kid. He made me promise not to tell anyone. I was scared. I couldn't bear him running away again, I just want to protect my baby.' (Versus something like 'I tried my best to get him to confess for himself, I was on at him non-stop. And as soon as I realised that wasn't going to happen, I came to you myself.')

I don't think she'll go down for it in any case. If she gets charged, which is still an open question, she'll get off or get a non-custodial sentence.

I wondered that too @BrightYellowDaffodil - Emmur gets home and they’re charging her. There’s arguably a material difference @Bruisername in that she was told directly by George and Will only told second hand by her after a few days… I’m not sure it should lead to different charging outcomes in reality but I did think she was being a bit presumptuous assuming the contents of her letter before opening!

You would think that the fact that she did in the end turn her own son in would be a mitigating factor and that it wouldn’t really be worth the cost and time to prosecute her, it’s not as if she knew and ultimately didn’t do anything, especially since they’re IRL letting random men who’ve committed violent acts out of prison early. But then this is The Archers.

Story arc wise, it would make sense that Emma hasn’t been relieved of the charge along with Will, but as this is The Archers and they don’t follow standard plotting rules, who knows.

I'm unclear what crime she has committed. There's no legal obligation to volunteer information about a crime; not even if you an innocent person has been charged.

If she had been interviewed and lied about what George had done, then yes, but that's not what happened.

Essentially, Will knew and didn’t tell the police; he is not being charged. Emma knew and did tell the police; surely that should make them less inclined to charge her.

She probably babbled too much and let on she knew of his intention to make a false statement about Harry. The interval between that and her eventual call doesn’t look good and might just be enough to justify a charge of conspiracy to pervert. Well, that’s what I’m hoping.
Will may well have been more circumspect.

Oh, and her offer to act as a character witness for Alish. If Babylon has a hint of that, then she’s toast.

96% of the UK prison population is male. In Ambridge we've had Clive, Susan, Helen.....it would be beyond ridiculous to add Emma to that list.

And freddie

But I take your point. It’s like that on murder mysteries - the number of female killers is completely disproportionate to real life.

And Keith

She probably babbled too much and let on she knew of his intention to make a false statement about Harry.

Yes, that's the point where she may have crossed the line, although I still think there needs to be active collusion

Yes @RegimentalSturgeon i agree re Harry alibi. And you don’t need active collusion for a conspiracy charge @IHaveNeverLivedintheCastle but she did actively collude in front of Kate when George first outlined his harry story…

Is there a chance Emma hasn't got the same letter? On the basis of the crime, no. Emma knew about it earlier than Will but she was the one who reported George. On the basis of what the police know, possibly. Emma “let it all spill out”. It is not generally advisable to use a police officer as a counsellor, especially one who is taking a statement about your part in illegal activity.

But why on earth had they left any of their stuff in the drop zone? And why on earth don’t they have a more distinct phrase for “not clear”? This is safety critical stuff, for goodness sake. There is no room for mis-hearing.

Agreed. Apple pie with Wensleydale every time. And cheese with fruit cake too.

Popping in just to highlight something pie related that I don't believe has been discussed yet. Nigel Slater has a recipe for cheese and onion pie where he suggests you can add either potatoes or thinly sliced apples to the filling. So an apple-y cheese pie as opposed to a cheesy apple pie. I can confirm it is delicious. Perhaps Kenton or Jolene might consider altering proportions?

That sounds better. Maybe one should have done a cheesy apple pie and one an appley cheese pie

@MereDintofPandiculation But why on earth had they left any of their stuff in the drop zone? And why on earth don’t they have a more distinct phrase for “not clear”? This is safety critical stuff, for goodness sake. There is no room for mis-hearing.

Two questions, but the answer to both is the same: because they're idiots and shouldn't be let loose with a butter-knife, let alone a chainsaw.

And Philip

When you look at that list. A bridge does have an exceptionally high proportion of old lags

And Freddie.

Wow, I'd forgotten about all of the others.

I've been dealing with the police and CPS for the last couple of years. Five months to arrest, six months for the CPS to decide there was insufficient evidence to prosecute (unbelievable in this case). Makes me wish I lived in Ambridge.