Archers thread #172: Come on, Clive! Spill the beans and put us all out of our misery. Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that Clive sounds deeply misunderstood, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Fete over, cricket season over - can the Flower and Produce show be far behind? I don't think I've heard a mention of it this year. Have I not been paying attention?

In any real village, preparations for the Christmas show would already be under way, but not in Ambridge, of course. I am probably in a minority of one in regretting this.

With any luck, though, by Christmas this incredibly protracted tale of Alice, George and the crash will be behind us at last. Do we think Clive's really gone? I don't believe it. We won't be rid of him that easily. Will he go to the police himself? Will he attempt to blackmail his family or extort money from the Aldridges in return for information that would secure Alice's acquittal? Do we care? I find I don't really, unfortunately. I did enjoy hearing Clive for those few brief exchanges but I've had enough now. Unrelieved nastiness is not really what I want from TA.

Over to you!

I'm dreading hearing from Clarrie and Eddie. He'll be dismissive of the whole thing, George didn't mean any harm, he's a good boy really etc, and swiftly move on to discussing his next get rich quick scheme. Clarrie's hand wringing and tremulous wailing "what must the village think of us" will go on for a while.

I loved the scene with Brian and Tony yesterday, especially when Brian said modern Miranda is almost as bad as Pat:)

Interesting when Neil asked Tony if that went for the rest of the family and mentioned Susan and Emma. As they also employ Will and clarrie they wouldn’t be able to afford to sack all the relations of George they employ!!

Also, funny how Harrison is all over Martha again when he couldn’t have given two shiny shits about her when he thought her mum had murdered his beybe

hes a massive red flag

community service at meg's farm?

it also shows the complete "Masters/servants" divisions in Ambridge really starkly.

I'd forgotten about the sausage roll. If only Neil could have persuaded George to reform then...

Yes! The masters will close ranks to make sure the servants are suitably chastised!!

this sl would have been so much better if the roles were reversed somehow but I guess we can’t have another ‘master class’ kid go to prison so soon after Freddie

It is terrifying, when you think about it, to realise how dependent the Grundy and Carter families are on Bridge Farm.

To be frank, if they were a little more … evolved, it would have / should have occurred to Pat (at least) that this wasn’t a healthy state of affairs.

Once more of the details spread ( what Chris knows about how long Emma & Will knew and did nothing), I would hope they also get the boot. Particularly Emma, as a comeuppance for gobbiness past.

Emma won't get the boot from the Te Rum, as it's a prime position for gossiping. Or she will and she'll do tree surgery for a bit then work for Fallon at the vegan greasy spoon. Vegan full english, anyone?

A good brief will make a lot of his peculiar childhood and his mother's relationships. Emmur won't be at all happy.

Really good episode yesterday, helped by the fact that it involved so many of the better actors. But I wanted to kick Will in the teeth for suggesting Emma shouldn't have gone to the cops, given that he also has been telling George to give himself up. What was his plan, was it just to go on trying to persuade George right up to the point when Alice was led away to prison?

I didn’t think that was what Will was saying- I heard it more as saying they should have discussed it first but ultimately she did the right thing

when you worry your child is going to hurt themselves then you try to keep one parent ‘on side’ so to speak.

George’s brief should enter shit parenting as a mitigating circumstance. Will is just pathetic. In the opening scene when George was snarling and calling his father stupid, he passively accepted the insults without comment and offered him breakfast instead. Emma is the same - constantly apologising and grovelling the minute he snaps at her. It is infuriating the way the pair of them walk around him on eggshells.

Contrast with Neil roaring at him to sit down and reading the riot act but combining that with compassion and understanding.

Yes @RegimentalSturgeon I tapped a friend of mine up who is a criminal judge and she says 4 years starting point. I think at the moment that would mean he serves 40% but still...

Am I alone in hoping that Tony insists on sacking the lot of them with absolutely disastrous consequences for BF?

George has always been indulged, that much is clear. Emma finally realised after George called her a slut and his appalling video of Helen, but her efforts since have been far little far too late and she's done a massive backslide since she found out the truth about the accident. She only shopped George when Neil and Susan held her feet to the fire.

Neil was absolutely right when he demanded to know why George had been allowed to call the shots, same as he was right to fire George from Berrow over the breach of bio-security and how he spoke to Hannah, and right to bawl George out last night.

Neil is the parent George could have done with about a decade ago!

Oh, weird, it took me to an archived version of ML.

When George was very young Saint Nic warned Will that the way he and Emma spoilt and indulged the child would end in disaster. Unfortunately it was just after she slapped George so the warning was lost in the resulting chaos.

I got error 404 too, was looking forward to seeing the old names..

Waves to all ex-BBC Mustardland

I thought it was interesting that when Tony said George was sacked and the question was asked about the rest of the family it seemed like it hadn’t actually occurred to Tony without prompting that the other employees were all connected to him, or at least it had not crossed his mind that George’s sins should be visited upon them.

@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime what is the story with Neil having a criminal record?

I must say that I find it a great plot point that George is about to go down for a similar crime that Susan did* (but with much less mitigation)

*I don’t recall technically what Susan was charged with

HotCrossBunplease
what is the story with Neil having a criminal record?

He went to a party and and took the rap for a girlfriend who had dope on her and put it into his pocket when the police came by. (Rickety-tickety-tin.) Still gave him a record even if he wasn't all that guilty; it played into the tearaway image the BBC wanted to give him.

HotCrossBunplease
I must say that I find it a great plot point that George is about to go down for a similar crime that Susan did (but with much less mitigation) *
I don’t recall technically what Susan was charged with*

Sheltering a known criminal. Not really much like perverting the course of justice by framing someone.

How is it possible that the team that wrote/directed such drivel for the start of the week were then able to come up with last night's brilliant episode?

I have a nasty feeling that George will go down fighting.

i hadn't thought about it at all until i suddenly realised listening to this ep. Very precarious.

Was he actually convicted of anything?

IANAL, but is there a possiblity that George's brief could use the attack in mitigation of sentence? Look, even the local police are threatening towards him, the defendant has already suffered enough....?

I doubt it. Mitigating circumstances are, as far as I know (IANAL either...) things that relate to the crime with which the defendant is charge - in this case, something that made George drive the car. For example, if Alice was in danger in some way then driving the car without a licence was the least worst option. A defence barrister might also claim George's age/naivety too. But they wouldn't be able to claim as mitigating circumstances something that happened afterwards in a kind of "Your Honour, he's had a shit time of things since".

Talking of shit times, George is surely going to find himself a prisoner anyway? Can't go out for fear of bumping into Brian or Harrison, can't go anywhere without people staring, whispering or telling him what they think of him. Excluded from village life, he'd be better off doing his time.