Archers thread #172: Come on, Clive! Spill the beans and put us all out of our misery. Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that Clive sounds deeply misunderstood, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Fete over, cricket season over - can the Flower and Produce show be far behind? I don't think I've heard a mention of it this year. Have I not been paying attention?

In any real village, preparations for the Christmas show would already be under way, but not in Ambridge, of course. I am probably in a minority of one in regretting this.

With any luck, though, by Christmas this incredibly protracted tale of Alice, George and the crash will be behind us at last. Do we think Clive's really gone? I don't believe it. We won't be rid of him that easily. Will he go to the police himself? Will he attempt to blackmail his family or extort money from the Aldridges in return for information that would secure Alice's acquittal? Do we care? I find I don't really, unfortunately. I did enjoy hearing Clive for those few brief exchanges but I've had enough now. Unrelieved nastiness is not really what I want from TA.

Over to you!

Do I sense a little infidelity blowing in the wind for Adam and Ian?

Surely it's about time they fell out over something! Paul's available ...

I suspect Ian might want to go for surogacy again with his New Best Friend.
Adam fathered Xander, but did we ever hear if it was because Ian was firing blanks?

I don't know a lot about how IVF works. Would it be possible to create embryos from two different fathers in the one cycle (I mean that half the eggs would be paired with Adam's sperm and half with Ian's, not that you would try to put both with each ovum) and then implant them anonymously so that no one knew in advance which of them was the father? Obviously you'd need to find out who the father was later, for medical history if nothing else.

While I'm on the topic of Xander's origins: who is his biological mother? I don't remember if it's Lexie, or an Irish friend of Ian who was around at the time, or a professionally-sourced donor.

Donor egg. Not Lexi or Mads.

@ColonelOfTruth , Did you mean to be so patronising? (Or rude as they say on Mumsnet)? I was trying to be helpful.

Are you aware of how you come across?

BoreOfWhabylon
Adam fathered Xander, but did we ever hear if it was because Ian was firing blanks?

We did. It was. At which point Ian's reason for wanting to have a child, because it might have a smile like his mommy's, went right out the window and they might just as well have adopted; Adam never shared Ian's obsession with offspring.

Madds had a lucky escape, though: she'd have been very disappointed if she'd relied on Ian as her babyfather.

Thanks @AskingQuestionsAllTheTime. Did they use a donor egg or Lexi's own?

@BoreOfWhabylon , Ian had a low sperm count, which is why Adam is Xander's biological father. The egg was from a donor.
I think that the surrogate mother is not allowed to use her own eggs. (I read it on here)

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/surrogacy-caseworker-guidance/surrogacy-caseworker-guidance-accessible

"Traditional surrogacy
"Also known as ‘partial’ or ‘genetic’ surrogacy. The surrogate mother is genetically related to the child through the use of her own eggs. She is impregnated artificially using donor sperm that may be from 1 of the commissioning parents."

and
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/having-a-child-through-surrogacy/the-surrogacy-pathway-surrogacy-and-the-legal-process-for-intended-parents-and-surrogates-in-england-and-wales
"Straight surrogacy"Straight (also known as full or traditional) surrogacy is when the surrogate provides her own eggs to achieve the pregnancy. The intended father, in either a heterosexual or male same-sex relationship, or an individual, provides a sperm sample for conception through either self-insemination at home (there may be additional health and legal risks to carrying at self- insemination at home compared to treatment in a clinic) or artificial insemination with the help of a fertility clinic. If either the surrogate or intended father has fertility issues, then embryos may also be created in vitro and transferred into the uterus of the surrogate."

Thanks @AskingQuestionsAllTheTime .

I can remember way back I got really fed up of people saying Henry was born through IVF. He wasn't. Might not have been on here. probably on here and elsewhere, knowing me.

Gosh, it's all very complicated. When my lesbian friend and her wife wanted to start a family, she just had sex with a volunteer male friend until she got pregnant. I have other gay (female) friends who've had babies, but haven't shared the mechanics of it.

I do know one gay couple who used a surrogate abroad. I didn't approve, but they didn't ask my opinion.

Soosan agonising over telling christophurrr is one I want to hear

Yes. Are you?

Blimey @ColonelOfTruth you're being somewhat confrontational.
Fwiw I think that @KeepBritainTidy is being polite and helpful.

I have a feeling that I read that is what Elton John and his husband did.

Cathy had a proper “send off” involving a very contrived story in which she was revealed to be the person inside a mischievous Easter Bunny costume who was playing tricks on various locals (there was some sort of charity or GG publicity angle I think). The “reveal” was the first time Hedli Nikolas had spoken in years, and then she told everyone she was retiring, selling April (?) cottage and going off round the world in a camper van. On her return she planned to go to and live near Jamie in Hereford.

Yes, found it:

Sorry, I certainly did not intend to seem confrontational. I found their post so offensive but I appreciate this is not the place 🙂Back to The Archers!

I think George might be planning to fail to answer bail and to do a bunk with Uncle Cloive. He's gone from dramatic "Don' let them take me Murmmm" to insouciant "only room for one failure" rather quickly...

I do so hope we will hear The Wrath Of Brian tonight!

Tbf, whilst he might be scared he must also feel relieved that it’s out in the open

Brian’s reaction might have been difficult to write. He has in the past been an actively kind and empathetic employer to Will - protective when they found Greg’s body, and supportive at a time when Will really needed some distance from Ambridge a long time ago. So despite the odd s/l that made him indirectly culpable in Nic’s death (making Will work when if he’d been at home he’d have noticed how desperately ill she was) I do think he might be / ought to be a bit torn when it comes to condemning his former gamekeeper.

Unfortunately, outside her family, no one except Fallon seems to like Emma terribly much - which will make things all the harder for her.

Also Emma is The Mother so will get more of the blame anyway