Archers thread #172: Come on, Clive! Spill the beans and put us all out of our misery. Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that Clive sounds deeply misunderstood, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Fete over, cricket season over - can the Flower and Produce show be far behind? I don't think I've heard a mention of it this year. Have I not been paying attention?

In any real village, preparations for the Christmas show would already be under way, but not in Ambridge, of course. I am probably in a minority of one in regretting this.

With any luck, though, by Christmas this incredibly protracted tale of Alice, George and the crash will be behind us at last. Do we think Clive's really gone? I don't believe it. We won't be rid of him that easily. Will he go to the police himself? Will he attempt to blackmail his family or extort money from the Aldridges in return for information that would secure Alice's acquittal? Do we care? I find I don't really, unfortunately. I did enjoy hearing Clive for those few brief exchanges but I've had enough now. Unrelieved nastiness is not really what I want from TA.

Over to you!

He was an arse - he could see how conflicted Emma was and how broken she was and he should be supporting her no questions at the moment. She’s going to need a lot of support

The reactions of those most affected will be interesting.

Brian, Harrison, Adam, Kate and Fagash Lil - ballistic and wanting severe punishment for George and will hold Emma, Ed and Will to blame too. Probably Chris in that camp too. Fagash and Kate might feel sorry for Lil.

Alice will forgive. Joy and Fallon probably too and they will feel sorry for Emma

I think Alice will be supportive of George for now. However, she has form for being vindictive so I fully expect her to turn on him at some future point.

Has there ever been any on-air depiction before now of closeness between Mia and George?

No. George has always been quite snide about her before.

I think from Mia it was an element of nerves- it would give her a "legitimate" excuse to stay with what she knows. I think it's quite normal for new students to be nervous about leaving home for the first time. And she always wants to do the right thing, and she sees that as supporting family no matter what, even if they're only step-family. But she does also want to go to uni.

And from George- he's already shown he understands that Brad and Mia have got different options open to them, that getting a degree will be a way out of Ambridge, and he probably feels he's probably wrecked enough lives just now, and getting away from Ambridge is the only way for things to go well. I don't know if he was surprised at Mia. It would not have been totally unreasonable for Mia to think they'll all be better off without her. Though he's apparently great with Poppy and Keira, so perhaps she saw thst side of him too.

What do people think of the Clive intervention now? Might he return and attempt blackmail and get shopped or shot down - or are the writers setting up a long game with a future scenario involving the estranged daughter? (Kylie I think or is it Rochelle?)

I actually feel sympathy for Ed.

As anyone with siblings will know, it doesn’t matter how old you are for those instinctive feelings of rage and jealousy to rise to the surface. As the younger brother he’s doubtless had many instances of ‘you’re not old enough/tall enough/big enough to join in’, or secrets that Will wouldn’t share. There’s also the issue of Will’s financial stability and property ownership, and that Ed’s indebted to him. @

Even if Will were not his brother, is it surprising that he’s reacted badly to learning (a) that his stepson has committed a crime, (b) everyone else (it seems) has known about it for weeks and (c) his wife/partner has not only kept this massive secret but turned to her ex husband for support, not him. Leaving aside the fact that in doing so, she’s committed a serious criminal offence herself.

At last, some brilliant writing and acting (not the Mia/George bit) and lots of tantalising possible developments.

I'm with @MerelyPlaying - completely natural initial reaction from Ed. Devastating on so many levels.

All of that. And add that their actions might jeopardise his fledgling business.

Last night George said he’d kept Emma’s name out of it. (And presumably Will’s as well.) So only a precariously tight knit group of family members know about Will and Emma’s part in it.

Clive is the wildcard here. Emma cut off his free BnB, and neither of them made him welcome. It’s not at all unlikely that he’ll roll up at some future point and dob them in …

(I do hope George pleads guilty to whatever he’s eventually charged with, so we’re spared another of the SWs’ fantasy trials. )

That’s going back to @Quodraceratops‘ question!

Initial reaction maybe but he didn’t need to be such a jerk when she took him lunch. She’s clearly extremely vulnerable at the moment and she needs support

Honestly though do we really think the police and cps have the resources to investigate and prosecute two parents who struggled with information for a couple of weeks but one did the right thing. Our prisons are overflowing and the court system is a total mess. I really don’t think this would be in the public interest. They can’t be bothered to investigate sexual assaults - would they really be bothered about this?

if they did go ahead with a prosecution it wouldn’t be for years surely?

unless they could be coerced into a guilty plea...

But would they be imprisoned?

Perverting the course of justice is a very serious offence, because it strikes at the heart of the justice system. Custodial sentences could be possible. But agreed, it’s not going to be obvious that Emma and Will were helping him to cover it up.

Until Harrison hears the news, that is ….

I think it’s unreasonable to expect parents to be able to make that decision immediately and whilst Emma was pushed into it, both parents were trying to get him to do the right thing. Yes it prolonged Alice’s distress potentially but he isn’t a threat as the crime was a one off. I can’t see what justice would be served here

and if they go after them then Clive should also fall into it

the village reaction will be worse punishment than a criminal record. Natural consequence and all that!!

chris will figure out Emma knew

What about when Alice and Chris remember emmur's surprise appearance at the door in order to apologise to Alice.....

That’s how he’ll figure it out

And to whoever said a hint of jealousy was not surprising from Ed re Emma n Will: I presume you weren't listening back in the day?

Are you talking about my post earlier?

The one that I ended by talking about how long game plots are the payoff for decades of listening?

My point was that Ed was the one who Emma chose, the one who has had a long marriage and another child with her. Therefore it’s interesting that he still can’t quite get over the fact that Will married Emma first. (Actually despite the fact that I HAVE been listening consistently since approximately 1985, if you really need my full credentials, I can’t recall if Emma and Ed ever had a physical relationship before she got with Will)

Obviously lingering jealousy from Will towards Ed is the more obvious perspective, so good that they are going for the more subtle one too.

Emma had sex with Ed on 8th July, 2004 and married Will on 27th August, 2004; George was born on 7th April, 2005. Emma walked out on Will with Ed on 29th September, 2005, because she was afraid Ed was planning to leave the country and she would no longer be able to spend much of her time with him when Will was out at work. So her first marriage lasted thirteen months – but she actually stuck with it for about eight of those, and gave up on it after her baby was born and she decided he was the result of a ONS rather than the regular sex she had previously been enjoying with the man whose baby it actually turned out to be. (She was living with Will at the Dower House before she had sex with Ed for the second time, the first time having been a ONS a year or so earlier.)

Shortly after they moved in together Ed and Emma tried to emigrate to France with the baby, but were caught before they could actually remove him without his father's consent.

She was living with Will at the Dower House before she had sex with Ed for the second time, the first time having been a ONS a year or so earlier.)

When she had the first ONS with Ed, were she and Will already boyfriend and girlfriend?

Not really; she was playing one off against the other and telling each he had no right to tell her who she was allowed to go around with.

I've a vague memory of Emma and Ed being in a car accident way back when she was very young. Iirc she broke her leg and her parents blamed Ed.
Did this really happen or am I confusing it with something/someone else?
(a similar thing did happen to one of my cousins and his girlfriend)