Archers thread #170: The scriptwriters have cast a Paul on proceedings! Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like to hear more of Drunk Alistair, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radioaddicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radioaddicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @OverArmour for the title. I was tempted to try some sort of complex riff on chocolate names, given @PedantScorner's lightbulb moment - Paul's sister is Cara Mack! - and all the nonsense in last night's episode about coffee creams, but I couldn't be bothered, beyond thinking we must all be Cadbury's Fruit and Nutcases for listening at the moment. Let's hope the SWs take a walk along Quality Street or we'll have to put a Bounty on their heads!

And over to you ...

I think that was the moment I went from thinking Harrison was just a dull man to finding him intolerable. Presumably he'll now have to apologise to Alice (if he remembers to do so) and go ballistic at George instead. Can all that happen off-air, please? The only scenes I want to hear with Harrison are him being sacked for gross misconduct and Fallon dumping him.

Not all that long - a few months? Questions were asked in Parliament about her prison sentence! I think the MP concerned used it as a way of drawing attention to the fact that women often get tougher sentences than men for equivalent offences, possibly because more is expected of women. It is a harsh fact of life that children are likely to suffer more from having their mother in prison than their father.

I'm sorry for your loss too, @OnlyFrench. This can't have been easy listening (or discussing).

It's unusual for me to be feeling quite excited about the Sunday evening episode. I expect it will be wall to wall fete, though. Is that happening today, or are they still at the planning stage? I've not been paying attention.

Harrison is going to thump George and lose his career that way. And hopefully Fallon will dump him too

Yes please.

From memory (so probably wrong!) wasn't part of George's motivation to do with him wanting to drive Alice's sporty car. I thought the implication was that he was driving too fast/ recklessly anyway?

Framing Alice is completely despicable- there's no defence really. I think it's most likely to be Neil or Susan that talk George into giving himself up. Neil is halfway to discovering the truth already.

Where do you get that from? She made it clear that that mustn't happen.

It was us that decided his initial motivation was getting to drive the car. It wasn’t till he’d already expressed his intention of getting “Auntie Alice” home that he expressed approval of the car and mused about whether he could drive it-as a reward for looking after her

@MereDintofPandiculation ah yes- that's what I was thinking of. I suppose that was to tell us it's a bit sporty. I would have thought that he was a decent driver but he also drove the harvesting vehicle (not sure what it was) too fast too didn't he.

I think people dislike of George is clouding their view of the incident

he had no ulterior motive or malicious intentions when he decided to drive Alice home. He made a decision to help her which wasn’t the best (he should really have called Chris or his dad and asked what he should do) but he thought it was helpful. He then had an accident which was unfortunate (given how few cars were out that night!). Up until that point he hadn’t really done anything wrong just possibly misguided. He then jumped into the surprisingly deep river to help people.

if he has left it there and told the story to the police I would imagine nothing would have happened.

his split second decision to move alice was stupid and clearly not thought through. Almost like putting the crayon in your siblings hand when you’ve just written your name all over the walls and your mum walks in.

we all know it’s going to come out and we are going to have consequences for him (although given the state of the prisons I doubt he will actually do time) and the whole village as relationships are turned upside down and I hope that is done well. If we get stuck with Harrison doing his labouring cow (v good description from pp!!) then I will have to take a break from listening for a bit!!

'If he has left it there and told the story to the police I would imagine nothing would have happened.'

That's the crux of the matter. If he'd fessed up it would have been seen as an awful accident, perhaps exacerbated by Alice's drunken attempts to open the car door (and perhaps if George had been an older and more experienced driver he would have had the sense to just pull over), but George's subsequent actions have led to Alice being shunned in her community - we've heard Emma, Susan and Harrison being particularly vile about her. George's fall will be so much worse because of his impetuosity, but it's very much in character for him to avoid blame for himself, and I think it's surprised even George how much guilt he's feeling about landing Alice in the merde. It's very unlike him.

But he’s young - he’s been cocky in the past bit in a total bubble and now he’s realising what the real world is like.

so I don’t think his unpleasant personality we saw before was set in stone and that’s not necessarily who he fundamentally is

he had no ulterior motive or malicious intentions when he decided to drive Alice home.

I’m not as sure of that as you are. He seemed to be delighted at having ‘caught her out’ ( albeit having some grudging respect for the amount of booze she’d managed to put away). He was clearly anticipating plaudits, at least from his family, hence the message to Will that he had to delete (which makes his growing discomfort at being hailed as a hero particularly enjoyable). I think he’d have made damn sure Brian or some other Aldridge knew he’d saved them a whole pot of bother. And he was definitely insinuating, pointlessly because she was away with the vodka fairy, that she owed him one and that he’d quite like to get to drive the motor a bit in future, thank you very much.

ETA: His voice during the early part of proceedings had an unpleasant gloaty and contemptuous tone, although I suppose he can be let off on the contempt aspect.

He wasn't the investigator, given that his wife was a victim.

By the end of the episode she was consoling and hugging him. If it was left to her there’s no doubt in my mind she’d let Alice take the rap for this. She loves her son as much as she despises her former SIL who she always bitterly resented. Emma won’t go to the police - I think matters will be taken out of her hands either by George confessing or someone else working out he is guilty.

He’s her son - he was getting distressed at the thought of her telling someone. She was comforting him whilst undoubtedly thinking she needs to go home and think about how she can support him whilst doing the right thing

its bloody awful when your child does something and you can’t fix it for them and you can only imagine the emotional pain they are in and then the fear that if you d the wrong thing they may hurt themselves

I’m sure Emma will take her time and in that time Alice will remember or something as it adds more drama

I, too, have had several encounters with the RSPCA, all of them appalling. On one occasion, when I rang after finding an injured animal, the woman could not have been more rude and unhelpful. On another, despite finding a dog,( in its own home) in great distress and in a dreadful condition, I was told they wouldn't visit for at least 3 days. In all instances I found animal rescue centres were most helpful, and, if they were unable to help, put me in touch with someone who could.

I still grind my teeth every time I see an ad for the RSPCA on tv.
Am now involved with a cat rescue centre; what other volunteers there say about the RSPCA could not be repeated here.
(Sorry to derail thread)

I’m also really excited for tonight. I hope it isn’t JUST the fete etc

I think Emma will break down and tell Will.

Yes telling Will would be a good shout.

If it was left to her there’s no doubt in my mind she’d let Alice take the rap for this - If Alice didn't have Martha I don't think she'd bat an eyelid, but it's not as simple as that is it? She is conflicted between saving George and ensuring no harm comes to Martha, her niece - and ultimately to herself. She doesn't want Alice to go to prison as her own mother did when she was a child and at the same time she ought to be acutely aware that her own mother went to prison for doing exactly what Emma is contemplating doing now - covering up the crime of a relative. As I said in my previous post - the dilemma is a masterstroke by the SWs.

Re your first paragraph I didn't hear it that way. He admired the car but I don't think that was his motivation. I don't think he was driving too fast either he was distracted by Alice trying to open the door.

if he has left it there and told the story to the police I would imagine nothing would have happened. Yes.

But - what he did next was serious, not just because of its very real effect on Alice - who didn't actually drive arguably dangerously causing another car to swerve into an unseasonable and unexplainably swollen river and two? three? people to fear for their lives, but also, if the course of justice can be bent without consequences, the foundation of our civilisation is attacked (1)

So even though prisons are overcrowded, he is quite high on the list of people who would get a place.

(1) I realise this in an idealistic view given the unequal access to the law that exists.

@RegimentalSturgeon would you accept "no greater ulterior motive than the average good Samaritan"? I suspect few of us are absolutely selfless - if nothing else we are considering our self esteem, whether or not we will be able to continue to look at ourselves as a "good" person.

I think matters will be taken out of her hands either by George confessing or someone else working out he is guilty. I wonder whetehr she will work out that she needs to protect herself from complicity? I think she won't. So best that Neil/Susan come to the correct answer before Chris does - because Chris might not feel able to tell them.

Going off at a bit of a tangent here, but I've just realised that Angus Stobie, who plays George, is Scottish. Very good accent work as he doesn't sound Scottish in the slightest when he plays George. I think he went to George Heriot's in Edinburgh. Then Manchester School of Theatre (part of Manchester Metropolitan University). He's very good. I wonder how long TA will be able to keep him. Depends if he ends up in prison, I suppose.

That does explain why his voice does a funny wobble sometimes

but agree he is very good. I wonder if he is as good on stage/tv

Same @OnlyFrench but DM not DH. I’ve actually been quite impressed with how TA has portrayed alcoholism in the middle classes and the slow and imperceptible slide from big boozer into dependant addict. A lot of it rang true for me.

I too picture Aliss as Zara T and Kate as dark haired and willowy. I’m amazed by pp saying emmur is supposed to be tiny and very pretty. In my mind’s eye, she’s solidly built, a bit bovine and jealous of the wafty sloany ponies who she perceives as being better than her…