Archers thread #159: Sad news as 2023 draws to a close - RIP Ian Pepperell (Roy Tucker). Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like more of Gagriculture, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

We start this thread with the very sad news that Ian Pepperell, who played Roy Tucker from 1995 without a break, has died at the age of 53. There's a lovely tribute to him in this article from Jeremy Howe, the current Editor. https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2023/dec/23/the-archers-actor-ian-pepperell-dies-aged-53-roy-archer-eastenders

Graham Blockey, who played Robert Snell, died just over a year ago, also far too young (66). https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/much-loved-surrey-gp-archers-25524449 As yet, Robert survives in Ambridge.

I do hope they don't re-cast Robert, but it might work for Roy, I suppose, after a suitable interval. They've re-cast Tony, Tom, Kate, Pip, Clarrie and Emma, mostly successfully. I still wish Tom and Pip hadn't been re-cast. New Tom is a good actor but so was Old Tom.

Meanwhile, several very elderly members of the cast survive, and long may that continue, although not necessarily on air. I think most of us would say that the time has come for Jill to become a silent character, following the precedent of Peggy and Christine.

So! Christmas next week - will it be the best Christmas ever at either Brookfield or The Stables, or both? Then it's 2024. What does the New Year hold for The Archers? Over to you!

I have a horrible feeling my last post reads as far more combative than I intended. Apologies if that’s the case, @bakedpotatoforlunch - I really was only thinking of the variety of responses to new characters, not trying to suggest any number of years of listening is more valid!

and what I crave is better and more careful portrayal of the established characters. For me, new characters should serve to throw light on unexpected evolutions in the people we already know. Until they’ve quietly earned their place.
This.

There are too many characters that don't seem to be doing much or characters that seem to be there solely for the purpose of ticking boxes.

I like the Henry bits and the Helen bits. Both are well acted.

The depth of Henry's emotional insight into himself and his ability to articulate it are certainly admirable....

Well he is 13.

What I crave is better and more careful portrayal of the established characters. For me, new characters should serve to throw light on unexpected evolutions in the people we already know. Until they’ve quietly earned their place - I completely agree. Let's have a consistent portrayal - it don't need to like the character, I need to believe in them and I want them to behave 'in character' rather than flip-flopping about for plot purposes (I'm looking at you Justin). For Ambridge to feel like a real place we need to feel as if know the people who are living there (even if they never speak) and the same applies to the fabric of the place - all the historic locations and buildings. I love to picture myself in The Bull, the Brookfield kitchen, walking up Lakey Hill. I haven't got over the loss of Home Farm and still find it hard to picture Brian in his new surroundings and I'm in mourning for Grey Gables reception, the dining room and the Royal Garden Suite. I think because you can't see it it needs to be clearly defined so you can picture it properly in your mind's eye - much harder than knocking down and rebuilding a set for a TV soap. For 13 minutes a day I want to feel that I'm peeking through a window or listening at the keyhole of a real place - cosy familiarity and not constant high drama.

I think we probably have too many characters to keep up with their lives in 13 minutes a day.

I'd love to hear from Ruari, see if he is doing okay now.

Also this thread is not keeping up to date for me to where I've read up to - it kept on opening at page 11, which isn't how mumsnet normally behaves for me on that's i might read but not comment on for a few days. Normally it opens at the last read place - Is this happening to anybody else? I'm hoping now I've had something vaguely useful to contribute it might reset.

Agree that they need to be better at the everyday scenes and bringing established characters back

I find Henry deeply unbelievable tbh.

I hope robs death isn’t the end of that story because that would be truly unbelievable

Also this thread is not keeping up to date for me to where I've read up to - it kept on opening at page 11, which isn't how mumsnet normally behaves for me on that's i might read but not comment on for a few days. Normally it opens at the last read place - Is this happening to anybody else? I'm hoping now I've had something vaguely useful to contribute it might reset.

Have you accidentally bookmarked a post?

I’d like there to be fewer “big” storylines, which necessitate weeks of hearing from the same few characters. More of the everyday tales of the countryside, where we hear about more characters, and the “big” storylines are woven into that. Not as fast, not as dramatic, but much more realistic.

We’ve heard a lot about Henry’s personal development and his insight into his own and his Mum’s behaviour is phenomenal but quite boring.

I don’t particularly need Helen to go silent as she is a good actress but I prefer hearing her chatting about cheese and being unimpressed by Tom and Natasha’s latest scheme. I want to hear more about the tea room and the tab T and N are - obliviously - running up! I bet they went to town over Christmas and had countless cinnamon lattes and turkey and cranberry toasties!

I also quite like hearing H and Kirsty chatting mainly because of the way it highlights what a terrible friend H is as she thoughtlessly - and repeatedly- crushes her plump, plain and lovely kind friend without even noticing.

• waits for barrage of outrage at K being called plump and plain

Kirsty is not plump or plain, but she is lovely and kind.
Nobody in Ambridge is plump and plain apart from Clarrieluv and Fat Rosie.

Please don't worry @TottersBlanklyIntoBimboCore. You didn't come across as combative - just as a committed Archers listener. Although I'm slightly envious of even longer term listeners than me to have missed out on the likes of Jethro Larkin, Doris Archer, Dolly Perks and Walter Gabriel (Nelson was still around a bit when I started tuning in in the early '90s).

It was just when listening to Helen last night - from whom I've personally heard enough for now - it just suddenly struck me that I felt the SWs have been treading water a bit recently with stories that feel a bit, well, lazily written and formulaic? The Christmas Day episode was a case in point but there have been other things too.

I've been reading on this morning's thread some really interesting observations and thoughts with which I entirely agree - eg to come up with storylines which draw new things from the existing characters (about whom I'd still like to hear) and importance of being able to feel the sense of familiar places of Ambridge and to know and like its residents, with all their quirks, as I listen in - agreeing with @LillianGish I hadn't realised that Home Farm (esp the kitchen!) would feel such a big loss.

Like @Voltefarce I'm not looking for big drama but I am hoping for the interesting, well-written every day stuff of human interaction which has been so well done in TA over the years.

Kirsty is absolutely not plain or plump! Goodness me, the very idea. I think she may be shorter than Helen and definitely not as thin, but Helen is probably very slim at best, whereas Kirsty is very physically active so probably has a good strong muscular build, with a fine healthy glow all year round and sparkling eyes.

13 years since Nigel was killed off! Wow.

Bruisername
I hope robs death isn’t the end of that story because that would be truly unbelievable

But what more is there to have of that storyline? Rob is dead and will no longer be around to give Helen an excuse for reaction; I can't think why either Bruce or Miles would have any particular interest in a child whose mother they loathe and with whom they would not be allowed by her to have any sort of relationship.

He doesn’t need to be alive to have an impact - the way she parents/how the boys develop as they grow/Jack showing signs of being like Rob etc

its all looking a little neat and tidy at the moment

There will be repercussions and Jack is a Titchener by blood.
Henry being so aware of his feelings is a sign that Something Will Happen.

There is no need for Rob to be around, nor his blood to be involved, to teach selfishness and manipulation. The boys are learning those from an expert.

I've said it before but I want a positive and realistic adoption storyline for Kirsty. A 4 year old boy or girl. They can help each other heal through a love of the outdoors, nature and kindness and fun.

I don't quite trust the SW not to make a hash of it but I live in hope.

Kirsty doesn't need 'healing'. She's level-headed and stable. I'd like her to have a baby Viking of her own.

@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime , I shouldn't laugh but you do have a point.

And confidence is attractive.

Ive just remembered Helen’s “you wouldn’t understand, you’re not a mother” comment to Kirsty a few weeks ago and had the rage afresh. Lordy, she can get in the sea with her brother and all.

Kirsty doesn't need 'healing'. She's level-headed and stable

She is. And brave. But she's been hurt multiple times and would be a wonderful adoptive mum because she's empathetic and fun.

I think adopting a child is too big a topic to introduce, and I'd prefer Kirsty to have a happy healthy child she has given birth to herself. There must be some reason she's been hanging out with Erik.

They had two gay guys use a surrogate to get them a baby and you think adoption is too big a topic?

We haven’t had a single mother since Poor Old Kathy, have we? I don’t count Pip, as she has the massed bands of the Brookfield Archers to help out when Tobes isn’t around.

Alice, Helen, Tracy ...