Million Dollar Lover radio 4

[Retrievemysanity]

Anyone listened to all of this? Really interesting and complex story.

[MissMarplesNiece]

No, but it sounds intriguing and I'll listen on BBC Sounds. Is it a true story?

[Retrievemysanity]

Yes, it’s a bbc journalist living in USA documenting her elderly neighbour’s relationship with a younger man. It gets quite dark. Be really interested to hear what you think!

[OhComeOnFFS]

Oh that sounds good. Thanks for the recommendation.

[froginawell]

I listened to the last episode twice, and I'm still not sure what happened to the cheque!

[froginawell]

(Although I was doing diy so the drilling noises don't help me get all the details)

[Retrievemysanity]

@froginawell it was with the lawyers I think. Can’t remember exactly but I think the neighbour knew which lawyers had it and told the daughters.

[froginawell]

Ah! Thank you, I'd got that far, but was expecting a ' and he ran off with the cheque/the daughters got its resolution.

I'm still unsure what I think! It feels like maybe both parties were more interested in the money than her wellbeing! Makes me glad I don't have enough money to be vulnerable when I'm 80...

I can't help but think that if genders were reversed, generally people would be more ' good for him' than 'she must have lost capacity'

The bit where the daughter dumped her in the bank when she didn't get control of her bank accounts was shocking

[Retrievemysanity]

@froginawell I’m so glad you said that about the daughter! I was screaming at the iPad at that point. And at the end when the daughter talked about ‘evil mum’ doing evil things. It’s like, hang on a minute, if you genuinely believe she has dementia, you wouldn’t leave her at the bank or call her evil?! Thought the bbc woman proper stirred the pot at the end too when she told Carolyn that Dave missed her!!

[froginawell]

Yes, I did think she overstepped a few times! Towards the end she gave a speech about impartial observer vs duty of care, and I wasn't sure she'd done either!

But must be very hard when you are doing a project on your own neighbours over several years...

[Retrievemysanity]

I was amazed at how much Dave, in particular, spoke to her and had her around tbh. He must’ve known she’d look into his past. Fascinating really that she watched all that drama unfolding in front of her!

[RosieFlora2023]

I’ve just finished listening and was also interested to see what other listeners thought. I ultimately felt that Carolyn was a very lonely, vulnerable person and those closest to her were behaving like a group of vultures. They were all quite open about their selfish interests (near obsession) in Carolyn’s assets. Her daughters should be utterly ashamed of themselves. They saw that money as entirely theirs and were just tolerating their mother until nature took its course. Although Dave isn’t a character most people would want near their elderly mother for a host of valid reasons, he did leave the house when asked and didn’t seek to cause any further trouble when Carolyn was sent home for her final few days. He continued to work throughout their relationship (although admittedly banking all the money and not contributing to the home). I also think he could have pushed marriage very early on and he never did. I just hope her daughters are satisfied now they have all her money. They didn’t even hold a proper funeral. Just got her buried as soon as possible! Carolyn was let down by everyone in my opinion. A really horrible, sorry tale.

[AndAllOurYesterdays]

Just at the episode about her son. Heartbreaking. I think Carolyn had a lot of guilt and unresolved grief which affected her behaviour in later life substantially.

[froginawell]

Yes, I thought the stuff about her son was really key, no wonder she tried to save Chris.

[maybejustonemoretime]

Totally agree with everyone about the daughters, them insisting she had dementia was sinister and I was cross the journalist never really addressed the fact that they also seemed only interested in the money in fact more so than Dave.
At first it was incredibly one sided with the journalists relationship expert mate literally making stuff up that might have happened to defend the daughters.
I suppose you could argue she did it implicitly letting them show themselves by giving them a platform.
I did feel like why shouldn't she buy him a van or whatever when she had great wealth and knew she didn't have long left, but towards the end it did start to feel more exploitative.
I googled them and seeing the photos did make it seem a bit more wrong than just listening.

If anyone has any other suggestions for similar series on bbc sounds or a podcast please share.

[GameofPhones]

Very interesting podcast. It made me wonder how many loves are 'pure', ie free of ulterior motives, even if unconscious.

[maybejustonemoretime]

For a large part of it I honestly thought she has lots of money and comfort and wants love and care , he has no money and no comforts and also wants love and care , it seems to be bringing them both happiness regardless of the motives so is it wrong.
It was definitely more complex than the usual romance scammer scenario.

[MBL]

I listened too and none of the main players come out well assuming it's all fairly and accurately represented.
The daughters did seem motivated at least partially by money. But Dave was very problematic with his history of child abuse. He also was motivated by money even if it was just for the free ride rather than a big pay day. I cannot imagine a loving grandmother potentially making her grandson and their children homeless under normal circumstances which makes me think that there was coercion.

[Mumoffourteenagers]

I agree with these sentiments. I thought the daughters behaved selfishly and unkindly. Their relentless determination to have their mother deemed incapable revealed their financial motivation. They accused Dave of wanting her money but in fact they wanted it. At the end of the day, Carolyn was dreadfully betrayed by her mercurial daughters but Dave did not betray her. Plus the daughters controlled her in ways Dave never sought to. I feel extreme distaste for the daughters and I think the reporter missed the point. The point is choice and kindness and the programme did not even mention these words. Yes it's compulsive but for the wrong reasons. I do not regard the reporter as impartial and think she should not present herself as such.

[Mumoffourteenagers]

I would not assume coercion. I think in the absence of evidence it's best not to make assumptions. Carolyn had been very upset by her daughters. Unsurprisingly.

[Mumoffourteenagers]

Yes I really agree with this. Using the fluffy friend and giving them airspace based on one side of the (partial) recordings should not be presented as expert evidence.

[maybejustonemoretime]

@Mumoffourteenagers I was thinking about how different it'd be if Dave was a woman (I know it's a cliche) with a rich lonely old man, a victim of childhood abuse and trauma and a serious drug addiction and homelessness that had suddenly found someone that could offer what she needed and could give care and version of love in return- wouldn't everyone sort of think fair play they are a victim and deserve it.
I'm not out and out defending him, I think it's way more complex than that but I think it's not always a bad thing to share what you have been blessed with (money/charisma) for personal benefit on both sides.

[maybejustonemoretime]

Also I lost trust in the journalist when she was telling someone Peach cake is a British thing...🤔
She also seemed to have bagged a rich husband so to some extent maybe lots of people marry for personal progression and gain.

[Mumoffourteenagers]

Yeah I really had the feeling she had personal skin in the game. This kind of subtle bias can be quite a dangerous thing I think. And interestingly, despite all that the two daughters greed and selfishness still prevailed; even though the overall presentation had perhaps softened them.

[SinisterBumFacedCat]

I’m making my way through this and am shocked people can’t see what an abusive narcissist Dave is. Maybe I will change my mind at the end but the point when he is Bragg about having an easy life after she dies, and then the point where he manipulated her by breaking up with her then making up, and the disgusting way he treats his own daughter, who is so vulnerable, he is a scumbag.

[SiouxsieSiouxStiletto]

I wish that they'd made it clearer what happened to the cheque.