Archers thread #157: How sharper than a serpent’s tooth it is to have a thankless clan! Discuss The Grundys here. Bicker about The Archers as well if you like.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @OverArmour for the idea of making it clear in the title many of us are inveterate bickerers!

Now over to you, as we are about to eat and I won't hear tonight's offering till later ....

I think you're overthinking this. No reason at all to ascribe motivations to Helen that aren't borne out by what happened. As for going to the party; it was a significant day for Brian and she'd just wiped the shit off her shoes with the demise of Rob, so why not?

In other news I've just listened to my first Australian TA live, by dint of being up and about at 6.00. a.m. instead of waiting for the sometimes tardy uploading of the episode to iPlayer. Anyway, Thinking of Adil is it all bit compare and contrast with the deaths of Caroline, Jennifer, Rob and Jim's abuser. How we get on with life?

Adil says restaurant in an odd way. Can you buy another professional kitchen and retrofit to another space that easily? Adil is quite annoying - I don’t think he is written very well and the fiancée/wife thing is so stupid and his voice is annoying too. How did he ever get a management job? A bit too much of him tbh - I’m starting to miss Pip. So he and azra are the new people. Don’t mind her - although from her introduction scene she is very different. Hopefully the kids aren’t annoying.

is it fin du monde or femme du monde?

where were Oliver and Brian? The background music didn’t help me place it. The auction scene could be quite exciting!!

boop points to whoever thought Natalia was from the cooking course!

RegimentalSturgeon · Today 10:55
She didn’t HAVE to go to the ruddy party, did she? I’m sure Brian would have been stoic in the face of her absence. But it was where she could be sure of extracting a ‘sorry, Helen’ out of some poor sap, so along she trotted (“This is me being Brave and Beautiful”).

echt · Today 19:22
I think you're overthinking this. No reason at all to ascribe motivations to Helen that aren't borne out by what happened. As for going to the party; it was a significant day for Brian and she'd just wiped the shit off her shoes with the demise of Rob, so why not?

With all deference, almost the first thing that happened on her arrival at the party was that someone (Adam, in this case) said something she could look frozen about so that he had to say "I'm sorry, Helen; I'm so, so sorry". Opening your mouth at all in her vicinity is walking into a bluddy field full of landmines, and I can't believe that she hasn't noticed – especially since we have heard her banging on to Jim, about how everyone at the party knew Rob had died and so on. Helen luv, if you don't want people to think of you and see you and talk about you only and always as Rob's victim before anything else, maybe not making a point of reminding everyone all the time that you were Rob's victim might be a good idea? There may well be a fair few people in the village who haven't actually thought about it more than three or four times during the past six years or so except when you reminded them, or who (like say Mia) really didn't notice it while it was happening...

By her own account, Helen is unable to sleep for getting herself into a state about Rob, and when she does sleep she dreams about him and wakes terrified. Yet she goes along to a birthday party in the house where she was abused by Rob for two years, and where she nearly committed murder. At the very least, I think that Rob is a scab she feels a compulsion to keep on picking to make it bleed again and cannot let alone and allow to heal. I wish she'd go and get some counselling about that as well as for her ED.

Bruisername
where were Oliver and Brian? The background music didn’t help me place it.

They kept offering each other coffee, so I suspect probably the Tea-Room. That's the place in Ambridge that usually has music playing.

I know logically tonight’s episode must have the same writer as last night’s but what a contrast. Not in a good way. Adil sounded like he was off his tits on coke or has had a complete personality transplant.

Agreed, he sounded high. And Ian has become utterly vile.

Ian has been a fair-to-average git for many years, doing such things as compelling Adam to apologise for having been hit by Sid Perks, threatening to leave Adam over Mags thinking she wanted to have Ian's baby, and other such sweet behaviour.

Yes, what happened there? Did the writer use up 90% of the time on last night's and had to dash off tonight's in 5 minutes? It was abysmal.

boop points to whoever thought Natalia was from the cooking course!

Modest cough.

The Adil storyline felt a bit stilted tonight, I can't tell if it was deliberate or not.

Was it the actors way of emphasising the difficulty in getting the words out about Adils situation perhaps?

The repetition of how the SWs honestly didn't fuck up the fiancée/ girlfriend thing and Adil himself is massively distraught over it was annoying. Just drop it, no one's buying the stupidly elaborate back story of something that would never happen.

Adil was also very poorly acted tonight. I can't remember if he's always bad. He said he didn't mind crying in front of Oliver, but didn't sound at all like he was crying. And he really didn't sound like someone so desperate about his situation as the script was trying to get across. At most he came across as mildly put out.

I think The Archers sunk to an all time low last night with the Adil scenes.

Pitiful.

I think I have got to the stage when I don't notice bad episodes - there are hardly any good ones now. It is sad, have been listening for around 50 years and I just keep hoping it will improve but I think it is doomed. Wondering how long before they lose an episode and it reverts to five days a week.

Suddenly thought: is the whole “Adil never got married” thing designed to set him up (again) with Kirsty who also didn’t albeit for v different reasons?

The repetition of how the SWs honestly didn't fuck up the fiancée/ girlfriend thing and Adil himself is massively distraught over it was annoying. Just drop it, no one's buying the stupidly elaborate back story.

Sing it …

I had the impression, listening to last night’s rat-a-tat dialogue between Adil and his sister, that the SW has decided to utilise them for a bit of experimentation. It was so very structured and rehearsed and much more about swift delivery of lines than actually saying anything meaningful. Have the producers decided they are to be a comedy duo - even when speaking about important, un-funny things? It was so unlike the ‘voicing your thoughts as they emerge’ style of the best Archers writing. I was very put out, almost distressed, by the artificiality.

Tripping Paddington.

Eurgh. I HATE what they have done with the Grey Gabkes storyline. The idea was that Oliver was selling to a professional outfit so he could sit back and let them run it. And now we have a hapless idiot who sounds like he’s never organised a kids’ birthday party never mind a major hotel relaunch, inexplicably still in post after fucking up and running away, now calling his GP sister for advice on hotel management? Not to mention the bizarre situation of Oliver, who is about eighty himself, actually working there day-to-day (while actual trained hotel manager Roy is twiddling his thumbs) and having to find more money to get the refurb over the line- what sort of rubbish arrangement did he negotiate?

It is nonsense of the highest order and the SW should be ashamed.
I find Ian’s disdain for the whole setup the only good thing about any GG- related episodes

I can’t blame Ian - the whole thing is a joke.

do they not listen back to the episodes and think ‘well that was a pile of crap’ let’s do better. Especially after the good episode the day before.

Please dont put lovely Kirsty with Adil, leave her with her some time lover um cant remember his name but Jakobs bro. She was so up front with him it was nice to hear.
Nice seeing the women take the lead now and again. Hope she has another dirty weekend lined up soon. The only thing that would get dirty with Adil is her hands helping him on his allotment.
Love the idea him being off his tits on coke made me laugh.
I dont know why but its funny how we change our minds about a character, every one liked Adil at first now nobody does its the same with the gay vet nurse ( cant remember his name either) every body said he was a breath of fresh air but now his a pushy little sod. And I cant understand why Denise dosnt tell the Uncle to feck off out her house then go back home, that story line is really stupid too. Saying all this I still am hooked on the Archers and would hate if they stop it.

Adil 🙄 painful

The uncle story is clearly a cover for Denise leaving her husband @Alwaysdieting . We’re just waiting for the penny to drop with Paul.

It would be most unfair to put Kirsty with adil. He is a total man child and he would constantly be comparing her to his fiancée/wife.

also, he said to Oliver that he should be married with 2 kids by now (did I mishear?). Was she pregnant with twins?

Azras teens - who are they going to hang out with? And where is Azra going to live?

thinking of newcomer characters - Stella is a good one so it’s unfortunate they’ve put her with pip. I don’t know what they are thinking with Paul. Joy is a bit one dimensional/used as a plot device but they could do something with her and whatever her boyfriend is called.

Joy's squeeze is Mick. Jakob's brother's name completely escapes me, but he had a lovely voice.

Agreed with all of that, @KingsleyBorder. It's understandable they've got nobody on the SW team who's ever run a business, but in that case take advice! And listen to it! There's a Dunning Kruger feel about those storylines - they are so clueless about business they don't know what they don't know. Maybe they think they're doing a stunning job.

That’s typical BBC arrogance. I rarely watch bbc drama now because the writers so obviously think they are cleverer than they are. I remember watching the first episode of Sherlock and thinking I was being taken for an idiot. It feels like that with the GG sl.

Jakob's brother is Erik.

Arr Erik. I know the actor was in The Bill. I hope he reappears for Kirsty and they live together laughing and swimming all the time, she deserves that.