Archers thread #156: Fireworks in Ambridge! Helen gave Lee a rocket, but Grey Gables is a damp squib. Is the writing on the (church) wall?Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you're irresistibly attracted to George Grundy, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @OverArmour for the title suggestion, which I have tweaked a bit. I was strongly tempted by Less GGP (Grey Gables Peril) More GPP (Guinea Pig Plot), which was a plaintive cry from @PuppyPerson some days ago, but if Poppy has found new homes for the baby guinea pigs that may be the last we hear of them for some time, sadly.

Surely in the life of the next thread we must hear more from or of Rob, or Ron as some on this thread prefer to call him? <taps foot> Will Kirsty snap and tell Helen a few home truths? Will Pat's shotgun finally be brought into play? We can only hope ...

Also, will we ever find out who owns the other 60% of Grey Gables? Why is Adil AWOL (to use the other bit of OverArmour's title idea!)? Why aren't we hearing from Roy? Will GG ever re-open and will Emma get her Big Chance at last?

So many questions! Over to you.

I’ve just listened again because I’m confused, and it hasn’t helped. Have I forgotten a previous fraught conversation about Pip and Stella moving in together? And this is what Struth were joking about?

Me too @TherapistInATabard

That exchange between Ruth and Stella and moving quickly was so weird.

I’m glad it’s not just me. Very odd indeed.

Ruth seems to have come round to the new relationship very quickly. I last remember her being cross about the whole thing but now she is playing the fun-loving mother-in-law to Stella. I clearly have missed some vital reconciliation scene - did it take place on or off air? To be fair, I do quite often zone out during Pip scenes so this slip is unsurprising.

And might Uncle Miles be a continuing feature in Helen and the boys' lives? He seems to have grasped something fundamental.

I also have no memory of this discussion about moving in. Perhaps we are supposed to conclude this happened off mike, but as I also tend to zone out when Pip is on, I can't be sure I just wasn't listening.

I can't help feeling we might be moving towards Helen being at Rob's deathbed. Surely not at Bridge Farm or Helen's house, though? That would be a horrific thing to put the boys through.

I thought the Bruce depiction was in line with how he was first time around. ISTR that it seemed pretty obvious he was abusing his wife and the children and that Rob had learned a lot from him. And really he wasn't wrong about the fact that Rob had no genuine desire to be christened.

I can't help feeling we might be moving towards Helen being at Rob's deathbed

I absolutely agree with this. I think there will be some sort of dramatic deathbed reconciliation eg ‘I love you and have always loved you’ etc

A fees weeks ago there was a comment by Pip that it would be amazing if she and Stella lived together. I remember thinking at the time “Blimey, you’ve been together, what, ten minutes?!” I think Stella shut it down fairly quickly. I guess Pop is in the first flush of love but she’s totally OTT.

I don’t see why she laid into Ruth.

Agree that Bruce has always been depicted as an abusive asshole but the way he was written was a bit too pantomime villain. Sometimes they can write really good and believable dialogue but I am finding that less and less

With Rob the way he is we aren’t heading to another kidnap as he isn’t well enough but perhaps he will turn up on Helen’s doorstep

I can't remember if we heard Miles years ago during the abuse storyline. We certainly heard Ursula, who was utterly vile, but then we heard Bruce and he was even worse.

Ursula has presumably been dedded because the actress who played her died a few years ago. I'm glad they didn't re-cast.

I couldn't see that either was being shitty. Ruth's crime seemed to be principally agreeing to Hannah moving in with Stella. It then suddenly became conflated in Pip's head with her clear wish to find someone who was shocked about her becoming the only Lesbian in the world, so she decided that Ruth was pushing Hannah at Stella because she's shocked and therefore wanted to try to bugger up her relationship.

That (deathbed "reconciiation") would delay any kind of real deep recovery from the abuse even further, IMHO.

So I really, truly hope it does not occur.

Hard to know where this is going really.

Think we heard Miles previously but maybe only after Tunagate.

I was thinking the Ruth and Stella exchange was taking the piss out of Pip for moving too quickly with the living together idea... I was a bit distracted tho!

We’ve definitely heard from Miles previously, around the time of the trial I think. When Ursula was around. I like the way he’s slowly coming round to the idea that the situation isn’t quite as it’s been presented to him.

I suspect Rob will go out with a whimper rather than a bang, and we’ll see (well, hear) him going into a decline where his grip on reality and ability to function slowly slips away leaving him as a shadow of his former self, as the trauma of his upbringing crashes into his declining neurological state.

Again, it’ll play on the “do you don’t you feel sorry for him”. I know I’ve said it before but I’m impressed with how the SWs convey the nuance of abuse.

Hmm as long as they put equal effort into showing Helen's road to recovery from it, including doing the Freedom Programme, discussing her past experiences with a DV-trained counsellor, and of course getting help for both boys.

Speaking of the boys and specifically Jack, this was posted near the end of the previous thread by @Asking:

Except that to be honest I can't see that he has: he was under a year old when Rob left the country after attempting to kidnap him, and I doubt that he would remember anything about it; also seeing someone nasty for about five hours during his entire lifetime and before he was eight months old is unlikely to have been all that much of a hardship. All Jack has suffered is Helen.

I know this is a common, and understandable, misconceptions about lack of effects of DV/A on unborn children and babies. I believe it's really important to educate people about this, so I hope you won't mind some links and thoughts:

A child in Jack’s situation would have suffered in so many ways:
in utero, from stress hormones, being aware of loud voices, Helen’s fear at going to prison (just a couple of examples).
He was born and initially raised in prison - probably not optimal healthcare, socialisation etc.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/mar/25/pregnant-women-in-english-jails-are-seven-times-more-likely-to-suffer-stillbirth

He’ll have continued to experience the after effects of the rape; eg his mummy couldn’t bond with him initially (until Peggy intervened!)

New research on 3 week old babies’ brain structures ie formed in utero https://www.bath.ac.uk/announcements/domestic-abuse-in-pregnancy-linked-to-structural-brain-changes-in-babies/

From here: https://www.tommys.org/pregnancy-information/blogs-and-stories/im-pregnant/tommys-midwives/domestic-abuse-and-pregnancy

“During pregnancy, it (DA) increases the risk of miscarriage, premature birth, low birth weight, infection, physical injury to the baby and even death.

In addition to the physical risks we also know that the unborn baby’s emotional development is likely to be affected. This can result in behavioural problems as a child, higher risk of developing mental health problems and they are more likely to be abused themselves either in childhood or later in life.”

https://www.norfolk.gov.uk/-/media/norfolk/downloads/safety/domestic-abuse/leaflet-parenting-a-baby-018months-domestic-abuse.pdf

As for his mother’s effect on him - she is a survivor of DA and as such is traumatised. She already had an eating disorder and has suffered past trauma of losing her brother tragically and of Greg’s suicide.

I wonder if Harrison ministering to Rob at the traffic island and all the Jesus talk, may push Harrison towards something church-related as a job?

He does seem to be more in his element when talking people down in a crisis. And more effective than as a crime fighter!

Wash your mouth out. Helen is Doggedly Independent, she needs no help from anyone, and her sons need no-one but her.

Anyone else vaguely annoyed by that TV/radio trope of denoting a traffic jam by the sound of lots of cars hooting? Any Fule Know that the average driver in a Brit traffic jam deals with it by quietly moaning to themselves or their long-suffering passengers, not by hooting.

I hope not. We've already had Shula leaving a secular job for full-time ministry. I wouldn't want to see a depiction of the Church where all the named practising Christians feel like their vocation is to the priesthood or something else working within the Church. ... with just Neil left as an ordinary congregant, and no real mission for lay people to bring the Gospel to everyday life.

I speak as someone who does work in the Church. There are plenty of other ways to get involved whilst still being in the world.

What was more distracting was the horses during the fireworks: lots of background horse and fireworks noises during the first bit, when Lilian was on the phone to Jakob. But then when Jakob, Alice, and Lilian were doing the first emergency treatment in the paddock, before moving Sadie, no more noises: there was rhythmic banging in the background, which was far too regular to be fireworks and sounded more like someone hammering, Sadie whimpered a couple of times, and no other horses. Where had all the others gone?!

Anyway, plenty of beeping around these parts. The same roundabout gets snarled up every day, and the same incessant beeping goes on. I don't mind a bit of beeping to warn someone you're in the blind spot and they're about to mow into you, for example, but what is the point in stationary traffic where no one has anywhere to move?!

Hear hear @Fink. AlthoughHarrison would be great working for the church. Perhaps better than Shula.