Archers thread #149: This is not a drill, it’s a plot device. Here’s hoping for Stella-r rows in Ambridge. Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you think George Grundy's bantz make him a great laugh and totally harmless to women, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks for title suggestions - @FallonsNewCoat started us off with Drilling down OR What’s the drill?: So many jobs hanging in the balance - what’s planned for Adam, Stella, Freddie and horrible George?, @OverArmour's suggestion was ‘Drilling down on less than Stella-r performances and who will be a pig in muck’ and @TeenDivided contributed the laserdrill focussed Lets drill into plot holes and hope George gets his comeuppance. I went for a bit of all of that. The phrase at the back of my head, which I am very pleased to have tracked down, was from one of my favourite film franchises where the character Conklin says in Jason Bourne's memory This is not a drill, soldier. We clear on that? This is a live project. You are go. Training is over. Training is over. Well, that's us, troops. Training is over, discussing The Archers is a live project, and it's our job to drill down into all aspects of what we hear.

On the last thread, people were discussing how unrealistic the portrayal of mental health problems is on TA. I wholeheartedly agree, but I suppose they don't feel they can tackle long-running slow burn storylines that often. They made a great effort with Jack Woolley's Alzheimer's. Other than that, I don't recall anybody having a recurring illness that's been portrayed realistically (and actually that goes for physical conditions as well). Most things clear up and are hardly mentioned again. Sticking just to mental illness, Pat had depression after John died, Mike Tucker had a bad bout of depression, so did Elizabeth. Helen's ED may or may not be about to re-appear, but nobody's mentioning it. Ben's rapid-onset depresssion recently led to a psychotic episode but now he's fine, not least because he got prompt, skilled and appropriate treatment on the NHS, unlike most of the UK. This is one area where I feel they shouldn't even attempt it if they can't do it in a way that reflects the reality of what most of us experience, for ourselves and our loved ones.

Anyway, with that off my chest - over to you!

istr a delusion that if I didn't tell anyone they wouldn't notice, so no need to worry about concealing anything . . .

I do admit it's a state in which irrational behavior is part of the package.

Pat needs to calm down. She knows from experience that shouting and criticising will only result in stubborn Helen battening down the hatches and withdrawing into herself. You either agree 100% with everything she says and does on you’re not on her side.
I don’t know how Kirsty puts up with it all.

Pat’s shouting was too much. No wonder Helen lost it with her. I would have just left and said give me a ring when you’ve stopped shouting.

On the other hand, I am surprised that Lee still has a home on Beechwood. I would have thrown him out for meddling and making everything a million times worse.

I rarely have sympathy for Helen as she’s so rude to Clarrie and Susan but on this occasion I can see why she sees her nearest and dearest as liabilities.

I could appreciate both Helen and Pat's feelings tonight.

They all need to acknowledge just how terrified H is for Jack and Henry.

I found it hard to listen to Tony and Pat’s angry shouting. I would have said “I’ll discuss this with you when you can talk calmly” and left. They are just compounding the problem.
Helen is falling back into the habit of concealing her actions from her family and friends because she knows they won’t approve. That was part of the problem she had with Rob before. Nobody knew what was going on between them. They need to learn to listen without wading in and criticising her. I did like Kirsty being the straight talking friend though.

I think part of the Pat problem is an SW problem - she's the purveyor of the backstory from the parents' POV. Hence the unrealistic appeals to Tony to agree with her. Tick. Summing up after Helen has gone to always stick by her. Tick.

When Helen was so distraught about her children, all I could think was, but you are your parents' child and always will be. Your safety is as consuming for them as yours is for your children. It never ever stops.

While I'm here, bloody stupid ending : I'm need to find out what he's going to do next. Paraphrase.

She can't do anything. It's all up to him.

Yes but an abused woman often feels like the only way she can protect herself / her children is to plan how to deal with the next blow, actual or emotional.

It's the only agency she has

Fallons I've mentioned before I have a feeling Lee's days at Beechwood are indeed numbered but I think he will leave of his own violition. When/if he gets a criminal record and is prevented from seeing his girls, I doubt Helen will care or show much sympathy as she is consumed with keeping Jack safe and I think the relationship will completely unravel. It's already started - we heard tonight she doubts his version of events and is unsure if is guilty of assault now that Rob has got inside her head.

Hi gang, wow what a lot of Helen.
Helen and Rob was just before my time. I was around for Rob's exit and the snatching but that's all so the retrospective was interesting.

I do struggle with Helen. I know she's had many traumas but she just isn't very likeable. It's funny isn't it? I'm the first person to say women don't have to be nice, but then Helen, Hannah,
Pip and Lizzie all right get my back up for not being nice. (I have a list of not nice chaps too though so it's not all internalised misogyny.)

I had assumed she'd boot out Lee so he could be used as leverage to access to Jack - him being a danger and all, thereby leaving Helen isolated and vulnerable again.

Pat, in particular, is being insufferable, but Helen closing off from everyone (as she is prone to) is really taking a sledge hammer to nail down the isolated and vulnerable point. BOOP for Kirsty.

On another note, Stella and Brine apology was good, but would have loved to have seen Brian face down Justin. BL couldn't have ditched the contract half way through surely? It's all bluster. Just hang in there till harvest and see Adam restored, with no BL contract, so a whole new business direction developing, next generation though I suppose they need the BL contract to pay for the drill though.

Also did Brine only reinstate Stella after it became apparent Myson had no interest in taking over one day.... hmmm?

Pat is inexcusable. Tom can do no wrong even though he has nearly sabotaged the business. I want one of those scenes like on TV where she's threatening Rob with the gun, they struggle, it goes off and we only find out it's Pat not Rob pushing up the daddies in the next ep

I just want a good old ‘baddie’ storyline. Not domestic violence, eating disorders, grief, mental health, dementia or modern slavery. Just a baddie to hate and some good old drama. I know it’s the wrong show for that, but 😩

I usually listen in bed before I go to sleep, but it's a bit too stressful to do that at the moment! Pat is doing my head in!!

Pat is being entirely unreasonable. But so is Helen. I agree with @suzyscat, she is almost completely unlikeable.

Helen is so deluded. She’s not in control at all. And here she is pushing everyone away again. Why’s she’s never had therapy I’ll never know - is that her dogged independence again? Pat is also extremely irritating.

I want Anna Tregorran to give her the bollocking of her life for this.

I’m not clear why Helen thinks she has developed some kind of immunity to Rob. She was completely taken in by him once and she should already be able to see that he is damaging her relationships, making her doubt herself about who to believe, making her run around after him - all the same stuff again just in a different context. He’s even got her thinking that she’s the only one who truly understands him/can deal with him.

she is being an absolute idiot about this and Kirsty is a saint for explaining so patiently even though H will never listen.

Twice recently Lee has been described as "big, strapping" but I've never imagined him that way.

Me neither... I imagine him as average height and slim build... not in any way strapping or muscular!

He’s one of those creepy gym guys with the big necks and the squeaky voices

Me neither... I imagine him as average height and slim build... not in any way strapping or muscular!

Oh, I have always thought of him as big and (surprisingly given the karate and physio) a bit flabby. I think he eats a lot. Black short hair and usually wearing a black bomber jacket, badly cut jeans and a teeshirt (heavily-sloganned with band or Super-hero references). We know he wore new trainers for a muddy walk with Helen on their first date so I don’t think he has a wide wardrobe.

Pat is surely the voice of the listener - I was shouting exactly the same at the radio throughout Friday's episode. Don't make contact, only have contact through a solicitor, don't see him and certainly don't seek him out otherwise what's the point of having a restraining order. Helen is doing exactly what she did before - not telling anyone what's going on, thinking she can deal with Knob on her own and keeping her parents (who will eventually have to pick up the pieces) out of the loop. When she said Knob wouldn't fool again because she has now got the measure of him I was shouting: "But he's already fooling you with his fake collapse..." Lee is the person I feel sorry for here - he doesn't know what he's dealing with. He came along after Knob. Tom should have known better. What makes this story such a difficult listen is knowing what Knob is like and seeing Helen walking straight back into his web. That's what it must be like for Pat and that was why she was shouting (totally counter-productive I know, but I could see why she was doing it).

I was really hoping someone will suggest the Freedom Programme / Therapy for Helen?
and family therapy for Pat/Tony/Tom and Helem on addition?

I'm with you @LillianGish - Helen is a vulnerable person but unfortunately IMO her egotism is part of what makes her vulnerable. She truly believes she is unlike all other humans and won't listen to others.

Listening to Helen on Sunday was like going straight back to the Bad Old Days with her I Am Right, Do Not Question Me, My Way or the Highway behaviour.

Yes, Pat shouting isn’t helping matters but she knows what happened before and she can see how frighteningly easily it could happen again. And Helen’s secretiveness is clearly back in business with a vengeance (remember that whole necklace business?).

….and listening again to the film, I noticed how Knob’s voice split seconds before his ‘turn’ was totally in command - something like ‘Helen - come back!’ - absolutely in control. When she didn’t obey, he instantly went into his fit. Either very unlucky or extremely good acting, and it achieved exactly what he wanted: she not only stayed but went to the hospital with him and didn’t correct the Dr who asked if she was his partner.