Archers thread #146: They did fall apart. Can they put themselves together again? Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like to donate your time as a guide at Lower Loxley to save the Pargetters paying someone else a living wage, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @Impostersyndrome for the thread title suggestion Buses and trains are sorely lacking, canals might be nearby, but all roads lead to Ambridge, picking up on transport discussions in the last thread. In the end I didn't use it, having in mind the character limit. @TottersBlankly contributed an early draft title Wreathes, wrath, writhing (Jennifer, Lilian, Ruairi). Both good starting points for the new thread, which I hope will last till Jennifer's funeral, surely not too far off now. So, over to you - whither the Aldridges? Also, does anyone care if Lee goes to the US? Is anyone even slightly interested in the Brookfield B&B venture?

I think they need to know how prevalent it was and that many of our stately homes were built on the back of it.

That was 3rd Year at my Grammar school. We didn't have an Upper or Lower Fourth. We did have an Upper Sixth.

Yes exactly. Its important to acknowledge just as Brefugee describes up thread - the reality in the UK is vast amounts of the fortunes of the stately homes and the families in them were built on slavery both directly and indirectly.

Freddie's reaction of wanting to brush it out of sight and pretend it doesn't exist is pretty common. Then he can carry on presenting the family as the gracious lords of the manor, doubtless with the odd picture of a lady bountiful visiting the poor.

the fortunes of the stately homes and the families in them were built on slavery both directly and indirectly.
This is partly why we didn't visit stately homes as a family when I was a child.
I am probably 'the average age of a Radio 4 listener' now, so it's hardly news.

I don't know, Freddie's a man now and should be able to plan for himself, but I just don't understand why he wasn't working in the gift shop at 16 or waiting tables in the orangery. I don't recall him ever being advised to go on a course. I don't want to be in the position of excusing or explaining half of his behaviour but I do think he's lacked support in preparing for his future and is consistently being sneered at.

Lizzy and Lily were at pains to remind him his volunteer coordinator role is only temporary but at least he's trying to widen the appeal.
He agreed to the gift shop with reasonably good grace too.

I think Lizzy is too aware of his weaknesses and meets trouble half way. When he planned that hidden LL tour too late in the day Lizzy was full of this won't work, you don't understand but that was a great 'teachable moment' - here's a list of what you'll need risk assessments etc, you need to be selling tickets by this date, great idea you can try again with more notice learning from last time's mistakes. She complains he doesn't stick to things but he doesn't get much support (moral or practical)

How grand is lower loxley?
In my mind it is a bit like a house near us- been in family since 1500. Not that grand but has a restaurant-owns quite a big estate and had outdoor stuff going on and a few holiday cottages

certainly not in the gift shop category!

I've never imagined it as being particularly big house. I mean, it's hardly Longleat or Castle Howard, is it? How many generations back did they buy it, and was the furniture thrown in with the house or did great-grandad <gasp!> buy it?

His ownership of considerable wealth is gifted entirely because he was born with a penis instead of ovaries and the fact of that wealth intact is largely due to the hard graft and business acumen of his mother - a fact that Nigel was always gracious enough to acknowledge. Freddie seems to have inherited Nigel's poor brain but sadly not his great kindness, consideration and lack of arrogance.

i agree that Freddie is being a complete and utter arse. He wants all the good bits, without putting the graft in first. Elizabeth's reaction was entirely normal, and most excellent. Lily was having a swipe at her idiotic brother, but in her position i would never ever stop being bitter that the penis haver takes it all.

It is entirely consistent with galleries and big houses that things slip past the first or second inspection, and for a placeholder piece of information to be put up, followed by more detailed research and information.

When Lily was begging him not to move in with Josh, i thought he might say "why would I? I own this big, fuck-off house, away with you, peasant"

Adam. Urgh.

Just popping in to say Adam seriously pisses me off, his slightly breathless exaggerated voice makes everything sound like a HUGE drama. Argh!!

i always expect him to heave a huge sigh and say "life? don't talk to me about life"

Wasn't that just a literary device? A means of explaining to the lsitener. Like Dr Watson, or Bernard in Yes Minister (who in RL would be one of the brightest and best).

Ha, very good 👏

Haha that tickled me. Perfect Adamism.

Lower 5th at my school for young ladies. After that came Middle 5th and 5th.

For me it's all the weird EMPHASES on the wrong WORD.

Middle 5th? That is being different for the sake of it!

Yes @MereDintofPandiculation, I think forgive characters not knowing stuff or over explaining when I think that's just a plot device.

I think there's definitely parallels with David and Josh. It is different in that Josh is a grafter but I don't understand why Elizabeth hasn't ever suggested an estate management course or put him to email work a lot sooner.

I'd say Freddie did work hard at the orangery and has taken the volunteer role coordinating seriously. Yes he's been an ageist entitled arse as well - but he's not been resting on his laurels. If anything Freddie touches goes well L&L seem to think it's in spite of him, not because of. He's very inexperienced for a chap of his age, but I can't recall him ever getting any half decent careers advice.

I seem to have developed a habit of defending people who I don't actually like on here. First Alice, then George, now Freddie. I'll be advocating for Harrison next at this rate.

At the time Freddie should have been doing work experience or getting careers advice, he was banged up wasn't he? So he's got catching up to do.

His heart is in the right place, he just doesn't have the experience yet. Which is very remiss of Elizabeth.

That’s the thing - Freddie’s education was truncated at just the point where he should have been making a leap to the next stage.

And he was the wrong type of prisoner. Obviously he wasn’t going to need literacy lessons while incarcerated. I can’t recall if he had any probationary aftercare once he was released - but I can’t imagine probation officers (or whatever for his age group) have much training on how to guide a young client whose future involves managing and inheriting a stately home. And Elizabeth was conveniently depressed. No one was ‘in charge’ of him when he needed it.

He’s also not benefitting from the sort of emotional and social development most young people gain through early relationships. Not saying they’re compulsory, of course, but for good or ill you learn a lot from the navigation and negotiation of having boyfriends / girlfriends. (This isn’t always apparent in soaps, obviously - but I don’t see how it can’t be true in real life.)

@TottersBlankly You are so right about relationships etc. My DD has had no social life for 3 years due to MH issues, and she hasn't 'grown' much at all in that time.

Yes yes! He's definitely behind in many ways for his age.

Also, whilst I applaud learning all the areas of the business (and I know he's on volunteers atm) why on earth would anyone need to spend 6 months in the LL gift shop at the expense of anything else? How frequently is it even open? Surely 1 or several days a week would do and then come in for ordering/ stock takes/ accounts etc? (He lives on site) And wouldn't it make more sense in high season?

It often feels like Elizabeth fobs him off. She doesn't give him these jobs in the spirit of try this challenge, learn the processes and let's mentor your progress/ hear your ideas on that area. but one of The Orangery will keep you busy and out of my way for a bit/ the volunteers are a pain, Freddie can do that.

Yes, as if he were 16!

I've just been watching my favourite film(s), The Godfather and The Godfather Part 2. Elizabeth treats Freddie a bit like the Corleones treat Fredo, but the difference is Freddie doesn't have older and younger brothers who are obviously much better suited to take over the family business than he is.

Freddie doesn't have older and younger brothers who are obviously much better suited to take over the family business than he is he does have a sister of exactly the same age though - who would be very much better suited to running the business than he is.