How to Fail - cannot take the fawning anymore!

[Lottapianos]

Is it just me, or has the fawning and sycophancy gone completely off the scale? I've listened to this podcast since it started and used to really enjoy it. It's an interesting premise, and Elizabeth Day used to be a really good interviewer. And I get it - she's asking people to share very vulnerable stuff so wants to keep everything safe and 'nice'. Fine

God save us though, I've just finished listening to the live episode with Caitlin Moran, and it LITERALLY ended with 'YOU'RE amazing!', 'no, YOU'RE amazing!' giggle giggle giggle giggle. Absolute vomit.

Do you listen, and do you struggle with all this malarkey too?

Moran's writing/perspective seems so dated/irrelevant in 2023. Well past its sell by date.

"She's going to get lost up somebody's backside one day!"
😂😂😂

I can't listen to it anymore. It's got so ridiculous. But I also take issue with the notion that failure always has some sort of redemptive arc.

A lot of what is discussed on the podcast isn't really failure I would suggest, and I find it problematic as she only interviews conspicuously 'successful' people, if success is defined as higher status careers, more money, etc. I think this actually reinforces that particular definition of success as something we should in fact be striving for - and as such, every 'failure' has to be framed essentially as a route towards this sort of 'success.' It's a lovely idea and I get it in one sense, especially if we accept that failure might cause us to redefine what counts as 'success.' But that is really a form of post hoc rationalisation when things haven't worked out. Ultimately I find the whole thing quite reductive and a bit superficial and as I've said before on this thread, I think it tends to promote a fairly safe and middle-class version of 'failure.' Not always, but often.

I would also add there's a really interesting trend in popular podcasts to display this incredibly reverent attitude towards guests - The Diary of the CEO is one where Bartlett invites these guests on and is absolutely credulous, regardless of what batshit idea they come up with. It's quite enjoyable to listen to in a way, partly because it's often totally nuts.

I agree. I used to like it but it's now all fawning. Plus the same media luvvies are on every podcast. India Knight. Caitlin Moran. Claudia Winkleman. Elizabeth herself.

I like Sam Baker's The Shift but it's now going down that same road.

Oh yes, none of the people on her podcast are actually failures.

'Ultimately I find the whole thing quite reductive and a bit superficial and as I've said before on this thread, I think it tends to promote a fairly safe and middle-class version of 'failure.' Not always, but often.'

Very fair point

I used to very, very glancingly know one of ED's friends, so ED would pop up on said friend's Insta and vice-versa, and it would be a total torrent of reciprocal gush. This was years ago and tbh it’s only got worse. If you ever happen to glance at ED's Insta now it’s either a plug for the podcast or a 'partnership' with the clothing brand she promotes. I suppose that’s the function of Insta, it’s a ruthless means to an end, but genuine it is not 🤷‍♀️

She does have an exceedingly cute cat, though.

I rarely listen to HTF now, but I did make an exception for the Claudia Winkelman one, and was really disappointed to find that Claudia was plugging some skincare collab she has done and that the interview lacked any real depth. The early HTF episodes were really memorable, but it just sounds like any other interchangeable podcast now.

I do wonder if the format has just got a bit tired now, on top of ED's gushing? There's so many podcasts now where hosts interview (often) the same people (often) with no real depth or push back on even the most batshit points (as I think I said upthread, see Stephen Bartlett on the Diary of a CEO).

But on the subject of failure though more generally, I do think that How to Fail individualises this subject massively because of the insistence that failure is always and necessarily a route to 'success.' I would refute that - to individualise this a bit myself, and thinking about work, I have learnt from certain failures I guess, but not in a way that is making me particularly 'successful,' or is likely to do so in future. (I am more or less resigned to remaining quite mediocre at best!)
One way I deal with related disappointment is via a form of post hoc rationalisation - I can say to myself, well, I never wanted that anyway. If I can satisfy myself that is true then that is a kind of 'success' but it is also somewhat forced. And with regard to the latter, that might in turn relate to the fact that as a woman, some failures might relate to having had some opportunities cut-off.
But I don't think the fetishisation of failure as approached in the podcast always makes room for that sort of structural explanation, hence why failure becomes a problem for the individual to solve (while also being framed as an opportunity for the individual), and this takes us full circle.

I suppose what I am trying to say is just that I would love to listen to something a bit more meaty, a bit more critical, on the subject of failure. This is not at all what ED has set out to deliver, and that's fine! Just not my thing.

If you want to listen to a good Claudia Winkelman conversation, listen to Off Menu, where James Acaster and Ed Gamble interview her about food. She's very very funny. She's also on Gaby Logan's The Mid Point, which is good.

I've been listening to The Rest is Entertainment (no Claudia on there but they do discuss The Traitors) - it's such an interesting podcast. I hadn't realised just how knowledgeable Richard Osman is about TV.

'I've been listening to The Rest is Entertainment'

That is a GREAT listen. Richard Osman and Marina Hyde are very funny, and very interesting, and give each other space to talk and be funny, rather than the competitive hooraying you get on some podcasts with two hosts

I listen to all the “The Rest is…” podcasts!

Agree that Off Menu is also a great listen.

Love Off Menu and regularly relisten to episodes that are especially interesting and funny. I love it when I either completely change my mind about someone (generally for the better having perhaps thought they were a bit of an arse) or hear from a voice that so far was not on my radar. I also love Three Bean Salad to an obsessive degree... It makes me laugh so much but I think you do need to commit to starting at the beginning as there are so many call backs.

Chalamet....

Same. The whole “‘me and my lovely friends” vibe is far too sickly.

Did anyone on here see that Elizabeth Day hosted a dinner to celebrate x number of episodes or something (think she might also be changing podcast platform)? I have hesitated to post on this as I know I sound incredibly grumpy but I just took one look at it and thought, how insufferably ... smug?! A bunch of conspicuously highly successful people celebrating how to fail?! I just feel really dubious about it and couldn't help noticing that it looked as though the majority of those she invited had also had exceptionally privileged backgrounds - I did a quick count, and know for a fact that eight of the 20 (and probably more) had been educated at independent or fee-paying schools, often very prestigious. That's close to 50% compared to 7% of the UK (as I say, I expect the total is higher I just don't know the full guest list). Those that hadn't been educated privately had come from otherwise advantaged backgrounds. If they had 'failed' most had done so from a position in which failure would not be too damaging and from which it is probably much more possible financially or otherwise to come back - and where 'failure' is more possible as you start from a less precarious position. It summarised for me many of the reasons why I find the podcast so problematic.

'but I just took one look at it and thought, how insufferably ... smug?!'

I agree with you. I saw the photos on IG and I thought it looked pure cringe. Her dress was lovely mind you ☺️

Agreed, lovely dress!

This - in the New Statesman - is good:

'Successful people slapping each other’s backs and telling the rest of us that failure is OK primes us to accept failure as a fact of life. But for most people, failure isn’t a stepping stone to a bestselling novel or media career. Learning about celebrities’ minor cock-ups will not help those who are truly “unsuccessful” by capitalist standards, often due to a scarcity of resources, jobs, homes and opportunities over which they have no control. '

Celebrating failure is a mistake - New Statesman

I looked on Instagram but couldn't see this. Please could someone send me a link? Thanks.

So smug.

@OhComeOnFFS , it's on her insta grid from 21 Jan 24 - table laid with pink theme.

I agree with everything said here!

I still listen to HTF and Best Friend Therapy and in fact was very moved by the latest BTF in which ED talked about the process of coming to accept she wouldn't have a child. But generally, she is just far, far too sycophantic and I cringe at her gushing and the attempts to find things in common with the guests. I also can't bear the hugely earnest way she falls over herself to show she has all the 'right' attitudes towards everything. Her carefully enunciated home counties head girl accent doesn't help either. I wish she'd just relax a bit.

Her gushing didn’t work on Sebastian faulks. Made me snigger he so obviously wasn’t impressed - she would do a gush and he just went “well anyway” and moved on with what he was saying.

Im sure she’s very nice but wholeheartedly agree with the latest comments. They should get on a real failure in life on not one who ended up famous and successful in the end.Think ED would buckle in the fact of that..

'I also can't bear the hugely earnest way she falls over herself to show she has all the 'right' attitudes towards everything.'

I know exactly what you mean. She said to Dan Levy in the recent HTF episode that something he had said very much 'aligned with my values' 🙄 that's cringey corporate speak. She also shoehorns 'cis' and 'all genders' in at every opportunity during BFT which gives me the rage

I only stick with BFT because of Emma and her fascinating insights

Yes awful. Unlistenable to in my opinion. I forced myself to listen to an episode that had my friends partner on (as I knew he would ask me about it) and it was nauseating. Also, the guest framed her 3 'failures' but they were just tremendous humble brags. I don't find her at all sincere or authentic. Underneath the fawning and faux humility I think she thinks she's completely wonderful.

Sorry about the infertility though.

So glad it's not just me. Yes to the humble brags. I think I already said this up thread but one of the cringeiest moments for me was when Clemency Burton Hill had her name as her first 'failure' as it made people think she was posh when she wasn't. Errr, right.