Archers thread #143: In the Bleak Midwinter, Ambridge Folk Make Moan. Best Christmas ever? Probably not! Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd love to be in Jolene's choir , or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Well, we made it through Stir Up Sunday without bloodshed, but poor Ben is now in the grip of psychotic depression. Not going to be a happy Christmas at Brookfield, sadly. When will Jill swallow her pride and go and give him the abject apology he deserves? Would it be a good idea anyway for Ben to see his gran at the moment?

Will Jazzer say yes? I hope so. We could do with a Horrobin wedding to look forward to.

Will Emma and Ed end up in court if they go ahead with this idiotic scheme to nick the logs from Peggy's Folly?

Will the two choirs put on a joint concert at Christmas? I assume so, and also that the BBC will continue to fool nobody by using recordings of what is clearly a really good well-rehearsed established choir, not a scratch choir of half a dozen novices.

Over to you!

I never realise my imagination has been at work creating mental pictures of characters on the radio or in books until someone says what their mental picture is and I realise mine's different (or maybe, similar)!

I was very discombobulated when someone (?@Asking) posted the map of Ambridge recently and I realised that the Green/pub/shop arrangement I've been listening to most of my life is not the one on the map.

There's been more than one map over the years, and it seems cartographers haven't had full agreement about the location of some features, like the Am has moved at times.

Just noticed I put "watch" when surely I meant "listen" - which suggests there is something visual even if it's swirly mists like, maybe, a crystal ball

I was thinking that. I'm no expert on adult mental health care, but round us there are two year waiting lists for CAMHS and you have to be actively suicidal to be seen any more urgently than that. They shunt people off their lists at the earliest possible opportunity, too. If you rang them up and said you were worried your child was going off the rails again, you would just be stuck on the end of the waiting list, there would be no question of the instant reaction that was promised to the Dopeys.

I thought it was David’s vulva, previously… maybe it was Tony’s. We definitely did not need a re-vulval! Do we need a vulva in the next thread title? 🤔😂

Also - I had totally missed Vince’s 10 year old daughter!

That bit where David was asking about the appointment time reminded me ncomfortably of DH in pompous mode when he decides he's too important to remember a family appointment, let alone put it in his diary or look at the calendar. The difference is, I laugh at him and tell him to check it out for himself so he quickly realises he won't get away with it.

I don't know @SnowlayRoundabout - I heard that as Ruth was nearer the calendar and could look more easily than him taking his wellies off to check for himself (or just remind him, if her memory is better or she booked it in the first place). I often ask my husband to confirm details for an appointment and vice versa - as he's usually a capable human it doesn't annoy me unless we're in the middle of being irritated by each other about something else, as the Dopeys were in that scene.

I've never heard anything like it either @TheSilveryPussycat. Can you imagine the luxury of a support call to family from MH services just because of some (valid if rather vague) concerns rather than because they were in absolute crisis? I can't get support like that for my 90 year old patients looking after their spouses with dementia, let alone for the well-resourced family of a young adult who has recovered remarkably quickly from his storyline-induced psychosis. I thought the line about "So if he's feeling better soon can he just stop taking his meds?" felt particularly public-service-announcement-ish. Not enjoying this storyline at all and I feel it's doing a huge disservice to all the patients and relatives out there struggling with these things on a daily basis, as well as the mental health teams who I'm sure would love to provide this standard of service and care but are completely unable to due to circumstances beyond their individual control.

Elizabeth is annoying, her squeeky voice when shes talking to Vince.
Ruth and pip laughing when Ruth said she has to tell David about the dinner with Vince. I thought she took that too light as she has been so strong and protective towards Ben, surely she would be furious that Vince would even offer to meet for a meal. And why meet them face to face in a restaurant? Id tell him to Fxxk off ! ( though they wouldn't say that on T A.)

Maybe the ben storyline is part of Rishi's plan to reduce the load on the NHS?
Your child has a MH crisis? No problem, listen to TA for advice on how to handle it!

Have we heard from Josh at all? He was initially supportive to Ben with the pregnancy storyline and not heard him since. He would've been on the zoom call and I'm surprised Jill didn't force herself on the call too

How is Josh affording to rent Shula's place now?

Absence of Josh and Jill - BBC TA budget.

Absence of new rent fodder at The Stables - Ambridge Money Fairy.

Elizabeth is a stupid fool.
Vince is a thoroughly nasty piece of work who showed his true colours. He won't change. Underneath his polished rough diamond veneer is a nasty, vindictive bully.

Elizabeth's handling of the situation is appalling, she should have dumped him.

He hasn't acknowledged how nasty he was just talks about charging off.

Vince is only going to apologise in order to placate Elizabeth. No true remorse there. About the hurt he caused.
Just that it meant that he might lose his play mate Elizabeth.

Selfish bastard .

I hope at the meal Vince loses it again and shows his true character and that the scales fall from Elizabeth's eyes

Saying 'We're all four us going for a meal. No excuses!' would ensure my non attendance.

Not wrong, @SaffyRosie

Meanwhile, in the nearby hamlet of Umbridge, maybe The Whinger Formally Known as Prince should demand offer to take his bruv and SIL out to a fancy restaurant for a fisticuffs reconciliation.

I agree, even if I wanted to go to something, being told I must would make me very cross 😁

I'm reasonably sure that abusive men can be very charming when they are in the "wooing" stage of relationships; if they weren't, they wouldn't get into relationships, because women would have the sense not to get involved with them.

Vince has told Elizabeth what he is. She should listen to him, if she can't listen to any of his ex-wives or anyone who has had business dealings with him.

@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime , I agree. They are charming until you step out of line or it is no longer in their interest to be so.
How Lizzie and Mince got together sounded dodgy.
He's shown his true colours by behaving as he did in The Bull.
I wouldn't be surprised if he was 'the grey man' or if he was violent towards someone.

Even the painted plate rang a bell /waved a red flag with me. Not your usual flowers, chocolates, scent etc, but something that showed effort and a bit of imagination.

The bad news is when it happens, you don't see the red flag.

Yes you would think Elizabeth would think um his been married lots of times surely it wasnt all his ex wives fault they got divorced, also he is dodgy from the start and has treated her family horribly and shes still not sure if she wants to carry on. She must be really desperate and lonely.

If Ruari were to get hitched with the not yet introduced intelligent and handsome sprog of the Gills, he would get his “rightful inheritance “ (at least, the farmhouse bit) without having to worry about shares to half siblings. Far too fairy tale an ending, even TA wouldn’t produce such crap

Nope! Never mentioned again. Not yet, you mean

Not enjoying this storyline at all and I feel it's doing a huge disservice to all the patients and relatives out there struggling with these things on a daily basis

too close to home for comfort for me, i can't listen to it in the car because the Ben scenes make me cry. I would have given my right arm for help like that, so swiftly, for us.

But. onwards and upwards.

Vince is a nasty piece of work. But i think Ruth and David are right to sell and be shot of him. My feeling is that the only olive branch they're going to get is him not demanding the money for the NZ trip (but they're stupid to give that to him anyway). Am fairly sure Leonard is buying the land?

It looks pretty clear that Vince will magnanimously retract his repayment demand, whereupon David and Ruth will say they don't want his tainted money anyway and insist on repaying, Vince will take further offence, and Elizabeth will have to make her choice between him and her brother and nephew. Given that Beth has been shunted offstage I suspect that Vince will follow her.