Archers thread #143: In the Bleak Midwinter, Ambridge Folk Make Moan. Best Christmas ever? Probably not! Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd love to be in Jolene's choir , or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Well, we made it through Stir Up Sunday without bloodshed, but poor Ben is now in the grip of psychotic depression. Not going to be a happy Christmas at Brookfield, sadly. When will Jill swallow her pride and go and give him the abject apology he deserves? Would it be a good idea anyway for Ben to see his gran at the moment?

Will Jazzer say yes? I hope so. We could do with a Horrobin wedding to look forward to.

Will Emma and Ed end up in court if they go ahead with this idiotic scheme to nick the logs from Peggy's Folly?

Will the two choirs put on a joint concert at Christmas? I assume so, and also that the BBC will continue to fool nobody by using recordings of what is clearly a really good well-rehearsed established choir, not a scratch choir of half a dozen novices.

Over to you!

New Year’s Day is the day after Hogmanay

Where is Jakob on that voting list? And Adil? At least Hilda Ogden did well - I tend to favour the disrupters.

Tracy planned to time it exactly to their first snog, which was straight after the first chime from St Stephen's clock.

In any case, according to Wikipedia "Hogmanay (/ˈhɒɡməneɪ, ˌhɒɡməˈneɪ/ HOG-mə-nay, - NAY,[1] Scots: [ˌhɔɡməˈneː][2]) is the Scots word for the last day of the old year and is synonymous with the celebration of the New Year in the Scottish manner. It is normally followed by further celebration on the morning of New Year's Day" and the Inverness tourist site says "Hogmanay is what we Scots call New Year's Eve - 31 December" in their puff piece for going there to celebrate it.

I need to catch up. Anybody dead yet?

Not yet ... but don't lose heart!

They’re definitely going for the nice, dull Christmas vibe this year. Where is Amy and her blue cloak?!?

The biggest shock seems to be there is only one type of cake available in the Brookfield pantry.

I'm worried we're going to hear about Robert at Lynda's book launch. Poor Lynda.
I'm really hoping that Jazzer and Tracey have one of those things where it is clear each of them has something to say, do the "you go first" "no you go first" dance and then blurt it out at the same time in a totally unromantic way.

Am surprised that Brad and the awful-Mia weren't up to some hunt-sabbing on boxing day.

Oh gosh - d’you think they’ll feel they have to say an official goodbye to Robert before anyone else ‘leaves’?

@FallonsNewCoat I daresay there’s a donkey somewhere in the Midlands threatening to sue for breach of contract after being assured they’d have a part in the show over Christmas … Anyway, Amy hooked up with a new guy pdq, so perhaps Chris will only find out he has another child in about 18 years. (Speculation only!)

Late coming back to this but despite the propagation of the story by fan groups/wikis etc as fact, Jenny did not have an affair with John Tregorran (according to both the actors and the scriptwriters - at one point there was even a BBC page on this). Carol might well have been suspicious of John, who had already had various affairs including with Jack Wooley's wife and I htink a fling with Lilian Bellamy.

Jenny and John shared a passion for local history and the village malicious gossips (Susan's predecessors) couldn't resist shit stirring. Brian didn't like the gossip. There was a suggestion from John's side that he might want to take it further but not from Jenny's.

When Roger returned to see Debbie many years later, Brian had already worked his way around half their social set. One of the highlights of this was his "business meeting" with Mandy Bessborough at the races whilst Jenny was giving birth to Alice alone. Not to mention his decision not to rush back from his dirty weekend because it was only a girl. Unsurprisingly that was a few rocky years after Alice's birth. Considering Brian's obsession with having The Son its not surprising that a son by one of his mistresses would feel like a threat.

It was never stated categorically if Jenny and Roger got together in Uganda but I've always assumed they did on at least one occasion when one of the girls noticed her tights were inside out after returning - (which is why it stuck in my memory - I cannot imagine noticing something like that).

Frankly if Jenny had shagged her way around the village like Brian she is still his partner in the business as well as the marriage and has been for nearly five decades. She has not only raised their family but also his son by another woman. Of course she is entitled to her opinion, just like Ruth, Pat, Betty or Jill would all be thought to be partners.

As for dismissing Adam's overseas experience as looking after a few gates - working overseas on VSO/overseas development type projects before returning to land management/agriculture here used to be a pretty common route. AFAIK it still is, judging by the graduates of my kids' era.

Adam and Debbie have both worked hard and earned their places in Brian's businesses (yes he didn't own Hungary but he was a shareholder and provided the agricultural input). Its what happens in farming families - Pip, Josh, John, Johnny, Tom, Helen, Eddie Grundy all got their jobs due to being born into family farms. Ed and Roy probably would have done if their fathers hadn't lost the farms.

Any employer who sacks a manager for not being a yes man is a fool. If Brian wanted an administrator to execute his decisions without question then that was an option for him. Adam was right pretty much every time Brian disagreed about modernising the farm and farming practices, especially he has benefited from Adam pushing had to make Home Farm more "green" by having better quality soil as well as some demonstration pieces to show how the estate was no longer a polluter - one of Brian's more stupid decisions.

Yeah, but it was Tracey “who called it” New Year’s Day,so the Scots word isn’t relevant.

I concede that after the first chime of St Stephens clock, while technically possibly New Years day is actually still New Year’s Eve, because a day doesn’t end until you’ve been to bed.

It may be that New Year's Eve to New Year's Day is the only exception to that rule, because everyone makes such a hoohah about "it's a New Year!" as the last stroke (or even the first stroke) of midnight sounds, and if it were still New Year's Eve it wouldn't be, it would still be the old one.

Hmm how's George going to react to a lecture from Ed and Will together.....

The voting on the poll thing on Twitter is very odd indeed.

I'm still puzzled by that Twitter poll. Top 2 go through to the next round, but what are people voting for? Favourite character or person they'd most like to see trampled by a cow?

It’s really strange. I’ve voted for my favourite (ie most interesting and entertaining rather than likeable) in each round. I don’t know what others are basing it on. Not very clear from the start, sadly.

I feel sorry for George now he is going to be so embarrassed, Im not keen on Fallon havent liked her since she told Harrison she didnt want a baby and didnt even listern to what he wanted and poking her nose in when chris slept with the vicars daughter. Always thought she was an interfering madam.

David's reaction to Ben having time out of his course is really ridiculous, especially in the context of having tried to wrap him in cotton wool so far. It makes perfect sense for him to avoid the stress of going back in the near future, especially given how much he would have to catch up on. It was particularly absurd to think the university would even want him back part way through the year having missed several weeks' work.

Equally I don't really see the problem with him running the B&B, if he's keen on it. They can presumably keep an eye on him and help out discreetly, and it's not as if it's going to be full on - the chances of them being inundated with guests are really pretty limited.

Do we know what is happening about his share of the rent for Kathy's house?

What exactly is "the B&B"? Surely it was just Josh's room, tarted up? Now that both Jill and Ben have moved back in, there can't be any more rooms free.

If they’re paying rent for Shula’s house, it seems a bit harsh on Josh, suddenly having to cover it all without the extra two shares but I can’t imagine St Shula would expect them to pay?

@SnowlayRoundabout , I think that Tom & Natasha can manage to pay the rent without Ben's help.

Hmm, yes - the setting up a structure, only to immediately dismantle it thing is getting repetitive. First Peggy’s Folly (love that, @Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g!) which now has only one of its original founders in place, and then Shula’s nepo-baby house. It’s true - the SWs haven’t grappled with the financial screw-up at all. Are we supposed to assume rich Auntie Shula doesn’t actually need the rental income anyway, and wouldn’t dream of squeezing poor Ben, and of course Josh is far too busy to find new housemates … Or will ‘new people moving in’ be the next stage of the story? Lily? Freddie? Rex? Oh! Ruairi when he runs away from London?

I wonder if Lilian’s London Christmas chat was just chat - or whether Next Year Will Be The Year Mungo Moves To Ambridge???

I feel sorry for George now he is going to be so embarrassed

I agree that George will be embarrassed but I’m afraid Fallon had to flag her concerns. I thought she did well to grasp the nettle immediately and speak to both Ed and Will rather than let it get any worse. I still think George is going to turn nasty and stalk her.

Hmm, yes - the setting up a structure, only to immediately dismantle it thing is getting repetitive. I agree @TottersBlankly - and not just with regards to actual living arrangements. Ben's mental health - speedy spiral into psychosis, treatment at record speed and back to work (well dropping his course, but with perfectly sensible and viable projects in place), Jill's poisonous behaviour, speedily back-tracked having served its purpose and now moving back in (I wonder how long her refusal to do any catering will last - we are in for some "hilarity" or irritation as she settles into a more Bert Horrobin type role at Brookfield), the message in a bottle guitar mix-up (I still don't understand the point of that) and now George's crush on Fallon which is just weird. It feels very bitty and I feel less and less invested.