🐴 Archers thread 124: And they're off! Pip on a high horse, Kirsty champing at the bit to find the lost ‘horses’, Alice on the wagon (or is she riding for a fall?). Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you think Shula would make a brilliant vicar, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3853783--The-Archers-spoilers-thread-5-Cant-wait-for-7-02pm-Join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @PoulePouletteEternellement for the equine theme to the new thread title. I wanted to work in Rex being a dark horse and lots of others too, but (you may feel fortunately) there's a character limit for the title.

I wonder if this thread will see us through to the end of February. The last one filled up in under a month, which was like old times. All depends on what delights are in store for us in the coming weeks, I suppose. I'm hoping that Gavin has spilled the beans on Victoria, she's also arrested, and the lads are found. Having said that, I'm not confident that in the real world they would get the support and care they need to turn their lives around and get proper jobs. It was good to hear on the last thread from @Trickyboy, who has professional experience of investigating this vile crime. Any comments on how things turn out in the long run for those rescued?

Was that a real script?

I liked Tony's reaction, but shouldn't he worry a bit about being struck out of The Will again?

I think Peggy In the Archers and Peggy Mitchell have a lot in common (RIP Barbara Windsor).

I don't get that script at all?! Nearest I could come to explaining it would be Jek's thinking he's back 70 years ago and is reliving Tony's birth. Except he isn't Tony's dad so wouldn't do this....

Am I missing something??

Peggy's first husband was also called Jack.

Oh OK I get it now. I knew he was also Jack of course. I guess the lack of understanding of what was going on made me think 'dementia', rather than 1950s dad not being allowed anywhere near a birth combined with alcoholism!

Thank you.

I liked Tony's reaction, but shouldn't he worry a bit about being struck out of The Will again?

I suspect he is long past caring about Peggy's inheritance games. She has disinherited/bypassed him before on grounds that he was the failure.

If Tony had wanted Peggy's inheritance he would have bid for her vanity project and wisely kept well clear of it.

@Darker

Yes it would. And all about what being a mother means to her.

ie Kate

Peggy's best one liner was in response to Kate telling her that she (Kate) was a natural and good mother.
" Yes,when it suits you dear"
Spot on.

This present kerfuffle is so that we can have drama at the bun fight. I don't remember Peggy being consistently dismissive of Tony but I do remember her tearing a strip off Brian during the Siobhan/ Ruarie debacle.

I don't remember Peggy being consistently dismissive of Tony but I do remember her tearing a strip off Brian during the Siobhan/ Ruarie debacle

Peggy was certainly under no illusions regarding Brian's philanderings but she has always been complimentary about his business skills and ignored some of the sharp practices and his advantages in life.

With Tony she has always been a bit eye rolling and she was far from supportive when Tony and Pat went into organics (also never seemed to like feminist Pat overly in those days).

I have no idea why this vibe sticks in my mind so much, possibly because I was young and idealistic at that time and the general sneeriness toward Pat and toward organics grated with me.

I think the first Jack was in rehab (or whatever they called it then) when Tony was born.

I am reasonably sure Jack had a nervous breakdown about being a failure in 1954, after failing not to drink too much while running the Bull so that the licence was given to Peggy instead, and was in the county hospital for four months during that year. He was in a clinic for his alcoholism (rehab not existing at the time) briefly during the late 1960s, and died in one in Scotland in 1972.

Tony was born in 1951, before Jack and Peggy went off to farm in Cornwall.

What a thoroughly annoying episode.

Massive drip-feed about Tony's birth

And Peggy gets away with 70 years of not being the grown-up.

I don't believe that the doctor was sent for after they discovered the cord was round Tony's neck when he was born: bearing in mind that they won't have had a phone at the smallholding Jack and Peggy lived in, by the time someone managed to find and fetch the doctor the baby would have been long dead. A midwife would have known how to sort out that sort of thing, because they had to.

And I don't believe that three-and-a-half-year-old Lilian was there taking notes about what was said; in fact I would bet on the two young children of the family having been sent away to spend the day and evening and night somewhere else. Certainly they would not have been welcome to attend their mother's labour!

I'd been wondering how old Lilian was when Tony was born, AskingQuestionsAllTheTime, so thanks for that. Definitely agree that children would have been sent away then. Presumably Jennifer and Lilian were with Peggy's mother. I can just about remember the formidable Mrs P from listening to The Archers when I was a child.

Interesting to see the script extract, Darker. Thank you. All rather unfortunate in my opinion as it seems to contradict Peggy's birthday message and Lilian's memories.

Still, Happy Birthday Tony!

I enjoyed that episode. Nice to hear Emma and Rex having a sensible conversation. I also thought the Lilian/Tony conversation was realistic. Very elderly people do get away with a lot for exactly the reason that nobody wants their last memory of a close relative to be an argument.

Do we know Tony was born at home? Peggy might have gone to a maternity home or hospital for the delivery. My brother and I were born in the early 60s and we were both born in hospital, by my mother's choice. Admittedly, I expect that was much rarer in 1951. Also, as there would have been a doctor living in the village at the time, he may well have been sent for if it was a long labour and the midwife thought forceps might have been needed. (I'm going by my expert knowledge of midwifery in the 50s, as learned from Call the Midwife ).

Do we think we'll ever hear Pat again? As far as I can recall, we certainly haven't heard in a new episode since lockdown. I hope Patricia Gallimore is all right.

I'll never forgive the SWs (and Ed) for depriving Emma of the dream home she worked nights in a chicken factory to pay for.

Fair play to her that she can be so happy raising her kids in a caravan on borrowed land. Long term I hope Susan & Neil leave Ambridge View to Emma, otherwise she might end up like Carrie but Oliver won't be around to provide a home.

Ed seems to be AWOL - haven’t heard from him for ages. Not that I am complaining...

It would have been nice to hear the birthday party: Peggy gets invited, the video is played for the whole family to hear and Tony makes some pointed remarks in Peggy's direction. If she complains, he passes it off as banter - "like your video, Mum, I'm sure all those mean things you said were a joke. Weren't they?"

I'll never forgive the SWs (and Ed) for depriving Emma of the dream home she worked nights in a chicken factory to pay for

Me neither and I loathe the "poor but 'appy with our lot" story which smacks of the poor being happy when they know their place. She has no accommodation security and very little living space for a growing family.

I also thought the Lilian/Tony conversation was realistic. Very elderly people do get away with a lot for exactly the reason that nobody wants their last memory of a close relative to be an argument.

Ditto the realisation that there really is no point trying to change the mind of a 96 year old. My mother of a similar age has some pretty awful opinions but we've stopped arguing on the basis that she's never going to change them now.

It would have been nice to hear the birthday party[...]

I agree but Tony sucking up the nastiness yet again is probably more true to life. Another family member excusing the behaviour and minimising to maintain family harmony is also very true to life.

Its no surprise that the worst abuse of all types happens within families because there is always someone who will minimise and excuse the smaller behaviours and convince the victim that its in their head or their fault. It makes it so much easier for the behaviour to gradually grow into more serious problems.

@Roysnewshirt

Ed seems to be AWOL - haven’t heard from him for ages. Not that I am complaining...

Oh I'd love for the dope to go permanently AWOL. Then Emma could wed Rex (thus depriving Pip of a decent man whom she doesn't deserve). Emma & Rex could move onto the council farm, raise chickens and pigs, grow stuff ... I'd even permit a baby because Rex would be a lovely dad.

I really do ❤❤❤ Lilian. She's my favourite character after lovely Lynda.

"Don't drown that gin, darling!"

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g
Do we know Tony was born at home?

Yes, in Jack and Peggy's bedroom. Doris was waiting downstairs for news about the baby and keeping Jack out of everyone's hair by talking to him.

@C8H10N4O2

It would have been nice to hear the birthday party[...]

I agree but Tony sucking up the nastiness yet again is probably more true to life. Another family member excusing the behaviour and minimising to maintain family harmony is also very true to life.

Its no surprise that the worst abuse of all types happens within families because there is always someone who will minimise and excuse the smaller behaviours and convince the victim that its in their head or their fault. It makes it so much easier for the behaviour to gradually grow into more serious problems.

Spot on.

I sort of hoped they’d make Peggy face up to bad behaviour and not allow her to the birthday tea. Instead ‘poor old woman’ gets away with it.