🐴 Archers thread 124: And they're off! Pip on a high horse, Kirsty champing at the bit to find the lost ‘horses’, Alice on the wagon (or is she riding for a fall?). Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you think Shula would make a brilliant vicar, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3853783--The-Archers-spoilers-thread-5-Cant-wait-for-7-02pm-Join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @PoulePouletteEternellement for the equine theme to the new thread title. I wanted to work in Rex being a dark horse and lots of others too, but (you may feel fortunately) there's a character limit for the title.

I wonder if this thread will see us through to the end of February. The last one filled up in under a month, which was like old times. All depends on what delights are in store for us in the coming weeks, I suppose. I'm hoping that Gavin has spilled the beans on Victoria, she's also arrested, and the lads are found. Having said that, I'm not confident that in the real world they would get the support and care they need to turn their lives around and get proper jobs. It was good to hear on the last thread from @Trickyboy, who has professional experience of investigating this vile crime. Any comments on how things turn out in the long run for those rescued?

has natasha bought the horses?

@cameocat

Whether justified or not I'm afraid I very much enjoyed hearing Lizzie lay into Shula.

Yes! Also Shula wondering later to Alastair if she was ‘a bit sanctimonious’ - wonders never cease!

@MissBarbary

Who correctly predicted Shula would do lots of angsting about going to see Philip and then angst to anyone in earshot after she'd gone?

Pretty much everyone 😊

@BeardieWeirdie

I love Brian. My MN name is a Brianism.

We must stand united against those who speak ill of him.

I also very much enjoyed Elizabeth’s rant. But I do wish the Shula would occasionally indulge in a bit of private reflection rather than trying to whip up sympathy from everyone she can corner with her sighing and moping. Poor Alistair had the perfect opportunity to agree that she’s sanctimonious but he probably knew it would lead to hours more of what should be an internal monologue.

The Lizard is quick to jump to the defence of her darling Freddie but is curiously complicit in the destruction of her daughter’s life by the loathsome Russ.

I also have no time for her ‘poor widder woman’ stance. Yes it’s sad that Nigel died and raising children through that grief is hard, but not many single mums have the financial security AND phenomenal family support that she has had.

Lizzie making it all about her/her precious son is a bit silly, although entirely in character

I don't think she did make it all about her, she talked about Freddie and the others hurt in the incident as well as all theiir friends tying themselves in knots having employed him. Honestly I'm no helicopter parent but I'd have been unimpressed having that dropped on me.

I was also happy to hear Elizabeth letting rip at Shula - people pussyfoot around her whining too much. I generally like Elizabeth - another nuanced character although the LSWs have done their best to flatten her over the last year or two.

Lizzie+Vince makes sense to me and its nothing to do with money, they both have built up and run businesses and have common interests. Why wouldn't they get together? Lower Loxley was a crumbling country manor in debt when Lizzie went there and it certainly wasn't Nigel who turned it first into a money making attraction, then a corporate hospitality and wedding venue. It was Lizzie, despite constant opposition from the chorus girl, who was the brain and drive behind it. Nigel supported that and they made a good duo.

Re Brian - I love Brian as a character, sure I would enjoy meeting him socially. I'm profoundly glad I'm not married to him.

I was trying to categorise characters into cardboard and non cardboard and I can't decide if the division is better written characters or simply the better actors.

Lizzie being so successful makes it all the more irritating to me that she is allowing her daughter to be consumed by the vile Russ in front of her eyes.

but is curiously complicit in the destruction of her daughter’s life by the loathsome Russ

Having watched more than a few parents go through that dilemma with young but technically adult daughters I'd say Lizzie's strategy of "don't forbid, grit your teeth, let it burn itself out" is normally the most successful. I think in real world Lily/Russ would have died off by now.

We don't know how much financial securiity Lizzie and Lily have. I'd assume some but the whole estate was massively in debt when Lizzie took it over and the successes will go into the estate which is (a) Freddie's (b) dependent on Elizabeth keeping a large business going

She was never a lady who lunched.

Most parents wouldn’t have the creep living under their roof and financially dependent on them.

Lizzie’s finances are quite murky but I don’t see her wanting for anything.

I had the impression that the money Lily was left by Nigel was essentially in lieu of a stately pile - so it should be a relatively substantial sum. But her inheritance is never mentioned - so I won't be surprised if it's been disinvented.

I had the impression that the money Lily was left by Nigel was essentially in lieu of a stately pile - so it should be a relatively substantial sum.
As Darker said, it's all a bit murky. Was the stately pile Nigel's to bequeath anyway or is it tied up in some estate / entail? Lily's "in lieu" was the Gwen John. I doubt that there was much cash to leave - a classic case of "asset rich, cash poor".

I thought Lizzie's reaction was entirely understandable and she wasn't addressing Shula as a prospective vicar, but as her sister. Her anguish over Freddie in the explosion was not about his injuries, but about what a close shave he had (not to mention the people who were actually injured). If anyone should have known that and what the implications might be for Lizzie after what happened to Nigel then Shula should. Of more concern is that Shula is pathologically incapable of keeping anything to herself and has to go off blabbing to anyone who will listen and yet she wants to enter a profession where she will presumably be privy to all kinds of confidential and difficult to handle information. She called it well when she described herself as sanctimonious - I actually thought Lizzie was very restrained. No idea why Tom is lying to Natasha about his exchange with Kirsty, but I predict it won't end well.

Having watched more than a few parents go through that dilemma with young but technically adult daughters I'd say Lizzie's strategy of "don't forbid, grit your teeth, let it burn itself out" is normally the most successful. I think in real world Lily/Russ would have died off by now.
I agree with this. At least, if they are living at LL, Elizabeth can keep an eye on Lily. I can't imagine why Russ is still there, though, surely Lily would be bored with him by now. Perhaps he has made himself so indispensable to Lizzie that Lily daren't tell him to go. In which case perhaps Lizzie has gone too far in making him welcome, it's a fine line.

Lily's "in lieu" was the Gwen John. I doubt that there was much cash to leave - a classic case of "asset rich, cash poor".

Was it? I thought Freddie had a load of jewellery that was its equivalent. I didn't think either of them actinherit until 25 anyway.

Or actually inherit, thank you autocorrect.

I'd say Lizzie's strategy of "don't forbid, grit your teeth, let it burn itself out" is normally the most successful.
Lizzie hasn't said anything to Lily but she is putting pressure on CMR, in his capacity as Art Curator. She didn't sound as if she found him indispensable after "The Am and The Id" debacle.
Besides, she's now got Vince who can put in a sly word here or there.

Lilliangish makes a good point. If Shula went to see Philip in her role as a lay reader to offer spiritual guidance should that conversation not be confidential? If I talked to someone from the clergy I would expect what I say to remain private, however badly the conversation went. Alan is the only person she should be talking to about it.

R4
Lily's "in lieu" was the Gwen John. I doubt that there was much cash to leave - a classic case of "asset rich, cash poor".

Neither Lily nor Freddie has inherited anything from Nigel yet. He presciently rushed out when he had no money at all and the roof needed to be fixed, and bought an expensive eighteenth birthday present for Lily, to keep in the bank (which I have a nasty feeling you can't do any more without paying absurdly large sums for the privilege) for several years, even though he had no reason to suppose he wouldn't be there to buy them at a later point when they were actually eighteen and he was not so very skint.

Lily got a valuable painting. Nigel knew the square root of bugger all about art, and his taste was for cheerful daubs by his great-uncle; I doubt he would have looked twice at a Gwyn John. Freddie got his grandmother's engagement ring.

LillianGish
Her anguish over Freddie in the explosion was not about his injuries, but about what a close shave he had (not to mention the people who were actually injured).

I doubt very much that Elizabeth even knew that Roy had been injured, nor cared if she did; make that "person". She will have known about Lynda.

I LOVED Natasha last night.

Because she was pleased she'd managed to keep her contract, Tom suggested (only slightly tongue in cheek: "Celebrate by helping me pack a few veg boxes?"

"I'm not that desperate" was the fab riposte from Natasha.

And there was another one a few lines on, can't recall that now though

@redcandlelight

has natasha bought the horses?

record scratch

omg

she did mention having to 'trim her margins' didn't she?

@C8H10N4O2, Jason hasn't been heard of since Jack Woolley ran GG.
She's Lynda not Linda.

.....but naaaaaah they won't really have another welsh slaver will they? WILL THEY? tom and Kirsty, both deceived by sweet talking mild mannered welsh slavers? "oh no how could I have been so stupid?" "I was stupid too" "oh Kirsty I should never have let you go" bam, Kirsty and tom, reunited. exit roy, sobbing into his Thundercats duvet cover

ILoveShula
Jason hasn't been heard of since Jack Woolley ran GG.

Jason did the work on making Willow Farm into two dwellings in 2008, and redecorated Willow Cottage when Vicky moved in, in 2009.

He and Robert did work on the Village Hall at the beginning of 2008, and he employed Robert a fair amount before that too.

She's Lynda not Linda.

Yes. And (grovel) it's Gwen John not Gwyn John, which I noticed I'd done only after I had left the thread and come back to it.

Gwyn John would be a man.

Wonder what happened to 'Jison'?