💥 Archers thread #117: Welcome to the only C19-free area in the world! Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you think Phoebe is a genius, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3853783--The-Archers-spoilers-thread-5-Cant-wait-for-7-02pm-Join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

I put the BOOM! emoticon in the title as I thought it could transition into a vague likeness of a virus if we're still going by early May, when we expect some wild contortions from the production team to get Ambridge back in synch with the rest of the world. I think I would have preferred them to ignore it altogether but I suppose they couldn't.

AskingQuestions I’ll get my coat 😂

Neiyull had a thing about Shula.

And there was the one who planted her dope in his jacket pocket during the police raid so that he got copped for it, I can't remember her name. Sandra? and he went out with "Miss Ambridge". And he was engaged to the barmaid at the Bull.

He was also sent on a course to learn how to vaccinate badgers (I think Oliver paid for it?) but only seems to have done it for about five days.

To be fair, some of Ed's problems are probably because the scriptwriters forget.

He had the cows until they were nicked and he couldn't afford insurance. And he's got the sheep - he made a bit on Peppa Pig, didn't he?

Ed doesn’t earn much money and doesn’t have ambitions to make more because he’s in a line of work that just doesn’t pay very well. As we are all being reminded right now, the most essential workers in this country who do their jobs as a vocation. Ed is no different and it’s a really terrible system. I’m not sure he should necessarily be blamed for that. If someone wants to train, get additional skills and move to a more high-earning job, it should be the person who wants the house - Emma. I do find it quite hard to empathise with her, I admit, because I personally don’t think I will ever be in the financial position of being able to afford my own house so I don’t bother aspiring to it (and it’s not for lack of ambition or hard work, I’ve got a Master’s degree and full-time job). But I think Ed was correct and I really felt for him when he worked out that he wasn’t enough for her and that the house was more important than his wishes, his peace of mind and even his physical safety. I don’t think they should be together unless she wants him for who he is, which is not a rich house-provider, it’s a farmer.

I hope all this is OK to say!

But then Christopher does seem to have chosen a sustainable business to get into

Christopher and Alice have both worked hard and built careers in their different ways. Alice certainly had advantages but worked hard at school and built a career as an engineer, desoute LSWs' periodic bouts of recreating her as an airhead. Alice's cottage is a massive advantage but they have used their advantages sensibly - staying put and supporting Christpher's business rather than cashing in for a flashier house or lifestyle.

Will has also worked to gain a trade and been careful with what has come to him. Emma likewise bar an understandable lapse into soft furnishings nirvana when anticipating Beechwood.

Ed belongs to that cluster of immature 30/40 something men in Ambridge but without money behind him to sustain the life.

it’s a farmer.

But Ed's not a farmer. He doesn't make a living from his sheep, he doesn't want to build a trade as eg a stockman which might give him a regular jobs. He only took the Home Farm job under suffrance and he didn't like the idea of being "constrained" by a regular job.

Others in the same line have worked much harder and achieved more.

Its all very well living the casual life and relying on others to subsidise/accommodate you when you are young, free and single but Ed is a father in his thirties.

I'm a townie so maybe what I'm about to say will be nonsense but it seems to me it must be very hard to get into farming nowadays. There used to be lots of very small farms, many of which were tenancies. OK, they tended to be handed down within families, so if you weren't in a farming family, it would always have been hard to get your own tenancy, but if you were you could count on making some sort of living from your family's farm. It would be hard work and there would be lean patches, but you'd be your own master and you'd live an outdoor life on land that your family felt was your own.

I have family who farmed in a very small way (sheep) - not sure if they owned the land or rented it. They made ends meet by doing other jobs as well, very like the Grundys. It wouldn't be economic now. The distant cousin I'm thinking of who was the last sheep farmer had two sons. Neither of them is a farmer.

Most of that's gone now. It's very easy for people like me to say to people like Ed that they have to adjust to a changed way of life. It would be equally easy for me (late 50s) to say that young people just have to accept that they won't be able to buy a house and they will have to work into their 70s and not expect a long comfortable retirement. Maybe that's the way it is and we can expect no better, but that doesn't make it easy to swallow.

EBearhug
He had the cows until they were nicked and he couldn't afford insurance.

He had indeed not insured them: he didn't give poverty as the reason, just said that he hadn't -- and apparently it is quite usual not to insure a small herd of beef cattle. But that was his second lot of cattle; the dairy cows that Oliver and Vicky had given to him he sold, paying Vicky back for hers (mostly because she unlike anyone else would have done something to him if he hadn't). Even before he started selling them off to pay his immediate debts he had somehow managed to have fewer cows than he had started with, in spite of each cow presumably having more calves than just one during the years he had them, and only half being bull-calves that had to be "kept for veal" according to Vicky, sold for dog-food according to everyone else.

And then he bought an all-bells-and-whistles tractor with what he had left after paying Vicky, on the never-never for the bulk of its price -- another loose end, because we never heard how he paid off that debt, especially since he then stupidly hung onto the lease of a field for which he had no use, and ended up working for the Estate free for two years to pay them off...

He is a very stupid man.

It's very easy for people like me to say to people like Ed that they have to adjust to a changed way of life. It would be equally easy for me (late 50s) to say that young people just have to accept that they won't be able to buy a house and they will have to work into their 70s and not expect a long comfortable retirement. Maybe that's the way it is and we can expect no better, but that doesn't make it easy to swallow

Many people of our age have had to make several adaptations to their lives and the way they earn a living. A man in his 30s should be able to. What will Ed do when mum and dad are no longer around to share the low rent Oliver charges?

He is a very stupid man

He is indeed.

I think it’s unfair to say that Emma should go and retrain. Just as Ed doesn’t like to be tied down to a stable job, I expect he wouldn’t want to be tied down to being the main carer, having to plan around school runs etc, so Emma has to have a mix of jobs that fit around the family.

Interesting to hear that a month’s health club membership is the same as a meal in the restaurant. So maybe £50? Which would surely make it out of Johnny’s league.

I think it’s unfair to say that Emma should go and retrain

Also Emma doesn't need to retrain - she has qualifications and experience in catering and hospitality and has always been able to manage customers.

The reason she does a patchwork of low paid jobs is because she has to juggle it around childcare whether living with Ed or not. Without caring responsibilities she could look for a single full time job in hospitality with the aim of building a career.

Then it is time she told her children's fathers to step up and take their turn, isn't it. Neither is in work; both have time to look after their own children.

Meanwhile: four weeks ago Lynda suffered full thickness burns and a broken pelvis; is she really likely to be well enough to be sent home?

www.reference.com/world-view/long-broken-pelvis-heal-3af91d34cfc8e6c8
"Healing time varies from person to person, but a broken pelvis takes at least three months to heal completely, according to the American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons. A person with a broken pelvis is unable to bear weight on one or both of the legs until the bones heal and requires a walker or crutches for mobility. After recovery, a person often walks with a limp for several months."

Not only does Emmur have two fathers to step up to their duties, but she has free childcare from the grandmothers, so she would be in a better position than many to get a better paying job. Neil and Susan woud probably be very supportive.

she has free childcare from the grandmothers

Both grandmothers work full time. So does one of the grandfathers.

Emma moved into the patchwork job model when the children were small. She already works more than full time hours but is still the default parent so is going to end up compromising to get location and flexibility because both Grundy boys have always taken her for granted as the default parent.

However she was ambitious and I'm surprised she hasn't found one of the full time jobs which always appear in Ambridge for locals, maybe the LSWs prefer to have her bottom of the heap.

Ed and Will should step up more but that needed to happen ten years ago. Eddie hasn't managed it yet so I don't see the boys being any different.

I hope all this is OK to say!
Of course it is Cecile

The 🔮 has said all along that MeanEd will get back together, it just hasn't said how this will come about.

Em fought tooth and nail not to allow Will to take responsibility for his son, as I recall. And then Ed joined her in the "Will must not be allowed any but minimum access to George" crusade she was on.

Em fought tooth and nail not to allow Will to take responsibility for his son, as I recall

They fought each other over custody arrangements. Ed and Emma behaved appallingly running off with George when Emma convinced herself Ed was the father. Will told Emma he would take George away because she was a terrible mother. They did manage to mostly put that aside for George's sake with a fair bit of prodding from both grandmothers.

However Will's view is that childcare is women's responsibility and his job took priority. So even if things had been amicable from the outset she would still have been the one juggling work around the children.

The Grundy boys are cartoon stereotypes in their attitudes to women

Tracey calling her niece Keirer grated a bit

I hope all this is OK to say

Definitely OK CeciledeVolanges. I love posts like yours analysing characters in detail. Ed has had his opportunities but I think we are supposed to think there is a fatal flaw in the Grundy genes preventing them from changing their lives. Goodness knows what Will is doing to earn an income now, unless Hannah & Johnny are paying vast amounts in rent.

Thanks for the clarification re 1The Green and Tracey’s house AskingQuestionsAllTheTime. It’s not just the house though is it? Will and Nic got married in Grey Gables and went on a posh honeymoon but I think MeandEd got married in The Bull - definitely less grand anyway. Oh dear, I sound just like Emma! At least the 🔮 thinks they will get back together. That’s something to look forward to.

Emma's first wedding was a pull out all the stops event at St Stephen's and then Grey Gables, I think, with a cake made by Ian and everything fine about it. Then William shelled out for a honeymoon in Furrin Parts.

Her second was also celebrated at St Stephen's, with a reception at Bridge Farm organised by Fallon. Ed couldn't afford a honeymoon.

William was merely repeating his effects when he treated his second wife exactly as he had treated his first in the matter of wedding venues -- imagine the complaints/gloating from Emma if Nic's wedding to Will had been either "better" or "worse" than hers!

Since the concerns kicked remarkably rapidly (over a weekend, I think) when Little Fred was an unconvicted drug dealer,

No, they didn't, they kicked in on his release from prison.

• or at least the current concerns kicked in at that time.

JudyCoolibar, the reason Little Fred was at the Stables before incarceration (until dear Mummy kidnapped him for a Last Night At Home after getting him the worst legal advice going) was because of the licensing bollox.

And the way it kicked in at that time, over a weekend and in the absence of any conviction, proof, previous disturbances, whatever - as set out by AQATT - was utterly implausible. I think it attracted a lot of comment (of the "but that just wouldn't happen!" kind) at the time.