Archers thread #114: Bull banished, Bali beaches beckon, bickering bullshitters burgeon

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like Gavin to stay around, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3439443-keep-it-to-yourself-the-archers-spoilers-thread-4, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks for all thread title suggestions! I've gone with a B theme which with a bit of luck will seem odd and irrelevant by the end of this thread. Here's hoping, anyway.

Haven't caught up with tonight's episode yet, so off to do that shortly.

Excellent comment, @C8H10N4O2

Does anyone else find it BIZARRE that the resolution to the big ‘pheeble and pip fall out’ storyline all happened off mike?

No bizarre as such as the script writers clearly could not come up with anything plausible, more expedient.

I usually enjoy hearing Lilian, whatever she gets up to. I thought her behaviour last night was uncharacteristically unpleasant. It's as if living with Justin has rendered her unkind.

Oh I can’t bear her, and she was horrible last night. Why is she so involved in the Bull anyway? She never used to be. Didn’t she step in behind the bar to cover for someone and then got used to being there and started interfering or something? When I started listening several years ago it was only on here that I learned she was a partner, as she was firmly in the ‘punter’ camp. I wish she was still a silent partner!

As for Shula, she’s really getting these empty platitudes down isn’t she? ‘I’m sure you’ll find a way’ ‘I’m sure you’ll do the right thing’. Ugh. Ad I may have shouted at the radio when she said she was proud if Alistair. Patronising sanctimonious cow.

I thought her behaviour last night was uncharacteristically unpleasant

I thought it was characteristically unpleasant.

I agree that Lillian was not herself. She's not a raucous harpy.

Shula's platitudes were effective. The vagueness is what helps, as the other person can fill in the blanks from their own POV, and can do this without speaking out loud. So the supporting person doesn't know what the issue is but has helped them nevertheless.

She's not a raucous harpy

Yes she is. She's shallow and a bully.

"She's shallow and a bully."

That may be how you see her current portrayal, but yet again, as far as I'm concerned, the Ambridge Personality Transplant Fairy has been working their questionable magic on Lilian's character.

as far as I'm concerned, the Ambridge Personality Transplant Fairy has been working their questionable magic on Lilian's character

I agree, Lilian used to be one of the more three dimensional characters and seems to have been flattened (possibly by the box of twirling moustaches beloved by the current LSWs).

Strikes me that Lilian might be secretly worried or scared about something that she hasn't told anyone about yet.

Illness, maybe? A sinister lump?

All this ridiculously overzealous behaviour about The Bull could be her desperate way filling her spare time and distracting her mind.

And Lynda must have caught her at a very bad moment last night. Lilian would never normally say such unkind and hurtful things to anyone.

It's all very out of character

Lillian was awful. I so want Lynda to win this one.

Glad that Al and Jazzer are going with Jim.

I like Shula.

Lillian is lacking in morals. She has often turned a blind eye while her current squeeze (eg Matt, Justin) has done unpleasant things. As long as she has her creature-comforts, she doesn't care where the money comes from (or how).

I hope that Lynda didn't put the flyer in the shop window.

I like Shula

I didn't use to but she has been lovely recently. Perhaps the vicaring is a believable instance of the personality transplant fairy?

Lillian is lacking in morals. She has often turned a blind eye while her current squeeze (eg Matt, Justin) has done unpleasant things. As long as she has her creature-comforts, she doesn't care where the money comes from (or how)

That is her dominant personality trait for me.

Lilian has form for having very nasty rows with Lynda. They dislike each other, and certainly don't hold back when they lock horns. Nothing new about Lilian's unpleasantness last night as far as I am concerned.

Could you remind me, please, AskingQsATT? Is it the jealousy over who is the best grandmother to their mutual grandchild you mean, or other things as well, which I have forgotten about?

They had a massive row about the grandmothering; there was also the fuss at speedwatch, I forget what about now but it was a right old cat-fight; there is the whole "your dog is unacceptable and my dog is perfect" nonsense that flares up at intervals; there is Lilian's absurd loyalty to Justin Elliott which means that whenever he does something loathsome and Lynda objects Lilian feels obliged to attack Lynda (I think that was first evident over Route B, but there have been other examples).

They just do not like each other, they are chalk and cheese, and whenever Lilian feels threatened she immediately becomes nasty. And then Lynda infuriates her by "rising above it" and pitying her rather obviously. That happened over the grandmotherly knitting: Lilian looking stupid and Lynda ostentatiously not mentioning the matter.

Thinking about it, Lynda descending to Lilian's level was the character change last night.

In any fight between Lynda and Lillian, my money's on Lynda, if only because she has much more sticking power and much better organising skills if other people have to get involved.

In this case, I think I'm onto a sure bet anyway because I simply don't believe the SWs ever had any intention of making the Bull's name change permanent. It's like the great move North from Brookfield, no-one seriously believed it was ever going to happen so the SL fell pretty flat.

I like Lynda much more than I like Lillian. Lillian was a character long before Lynda was, but she was absent (in Channel Islands tax exile) for a long time and then returned with a strangely changed voice and personality. Asking is absolutely right that she overlooks questionable stuff her current squeeze does. Matt was a great character but not somebody most of us would have wanted to be associated with. Justin isn't much different.

Lynda has principles. She's a lot less selfish than Lillian.

(Now paranoid that I don't know how to spell Lillian. But we all know who I mean.)

Team Lynda here.

The BBC spells her "Lilian" with two Ls rather than three, in the cast-lists and Who's Who on their website, if that helps!

I like Lillian. I think she is a believable character who has some quite serious flaws but can show kindness. Lots of people ignore the questionable stuff done by those they love, look at everyone connected to Brian.

And everyone connected to Kate

Agree, birdsdestiny. I can't remember the pre Channel Islands tax-exile version of Lilian, but love the way Fag-Ash Lil hasn't given up the fags or the gin!