Thread 99 (yes, 99!): Join us for spirited discussions of The Archers and its Top Blokes, whether you're Team Elizabeth (low spirits), Team Kate (Spiritual Home) or Team Toby (spirits =gin)

[Bittermints]

Thanks due to @PseudoBadger for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads and to @DadDadDad for being our resident statistician and keeping the ball rolling when Pseudo stepped back a bit. Thanks also to all those who contributed to the thread title.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like to be Susan's best friend or other odd unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3439443-keep-it-to-yourself-the-archers-spoilers-thread-4, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

So, to business. What a fantastic two-hander. Massive BOOP points to Alison Dowling, the scriptwriter and director (and the therapist). I had more than a small tear in my eye listening to that.

I'm another one with a vote of thanks to chemenger for all that information on the last thread about distilling. I should know some of that because I went on a tour of the whisky distillery near where my parents live but I've forgotten most of it except how delicious the end product is.

My theory is that Lee knows and is waiting for Helen to tell him

Mia’s accent... does anyone else think it’s off?

Kate is 40!!! Have the SW forgotten this little fact? Just as the seem to have forgotten that Tom is 37?

I remember talk of educating Ruari in the Catholic faith when Siobhan was dying and also when they decided to send him away to school (I think he lived at Home Farm from age about 4 to 7?). I don’t think it has been retrospectively invented.
Brine said the other day that Siobhan’s Mum Bridget was dead, did we hear about that on air?

But Kate is never going to get her act together. I have a nearly 80 year old uncle who has been sofa surfing and bankrupt the last 40 years, so I can believe it.

Lily so plainly despises Russ, and appears not in the least cowed or hoodwinked by him, I'm amazed she hasn't kicked him to the kerb already. I agree the Gwen John painting will play a part, but I am sincerely hoping that it will prove the issue that finally outs Russ as a scoundrel, (and maybe begins Freddie's redemption if he can be the hero in saving it from Russ' vampiric clutches) rather than the price Lily bears for her error. And bring it on quickly please, I don't want to live through another slow-mo abusive relationship story.

@QuaterMiss maybe it's off for Lily to talk MH with her mum in front of Russ, but it's in keeping with her behaviour right from when they were outed, "Russ is my love and we come as a joined at the hip package at socially weird occasions" (puke).

I can believe Elizabeth talking freely in front of him. People with disordered MH often talk VERY honestly in front of/to EVERYBODY. I can remember doing it myself, as well as family/friends/customers with poor MH doing the same, I think it can be really common. After all, your brain isn't working normally, and that can include the bit that filters what you say to who.

I don't want to live through another slow-mo abusive relationship story.

I don't think that's how it will play out. For one thing, Lily is already more aware of Russ's faults. OTOH, Russ isn't actually evil. He's a somewhat delusional cocklodger. Despite their age difference, Lily is by far the stronger character, and seems capable of holding her own against him, at least to some degree.

Anyone would think he didn't have relations to call on.
Probably doesn't - iirc his parents weren't impressed by his leaving his wife for a teenager.

Why is he prevaricating about the divorce though?

The thing is, though, Russ isn't "virtually unemployable". He could perfectly well have earned money in Manchester, albeit only by doing work that he would no doubt have regarded as beneath him and likely to get in the way of His Art. However, he could see no reason why Lily shouldn't do that sort of work, despite it getting in the way of her education. It would be fascinating to know what sort of discussions they had as the eviction notice came in.

Russ isn't actually evil

Have you forgotten Russ's weekly cleansing protein shake (or whatever it was)? Russ's farts alone must bear the sulphurous whiff of Satan.

The third possibility (which we've touched on before) is that Vampire Russ will set his sights on the LL female who has greater access to its material returns, and who is currently even more vulnerable than Lily ...
I'm not sure. Lizzie, at the moment, thinks that LL is more of a curse than a blessing. Yes, it's a fab set-up but it's a millstone around her neck. A millstone that she is obliged to hand on to Freddie, to burden him in his turn. The idea that someone could swan in and leech off her life's work, without bringing anything to the party themselves, does not sound appealing. She might fall for it at first, while her MH is not good, but she wouldn't put up with it for long.

Yes I've often thought Russ could have got a bar job, temping, admin, ANYTHING not including access to children fairly easily in Manchester. He didn't, and he let them go into rent arrears and lose their property, because it would fuck with his painting zen or some such nonsense, whilst at the same time "not being able to paint without my muse" when Lily was at LL. I don't think he's actually picked up a paintbrush since he's been in TA.

Presume he's not getting divorced because there's a marital asset house he'd like hang on to while he thinks the LL gravy train is still running?

Does he have children? He doesn't appear to give a damn about them either, if so.

You'd have thought he could find a job in a deli or posh coffee shop - though he probably wouldn't keep the latter long if he had to make coffee quickly, to suit the customers' tastes not his.

I can't see him transferring his attention from Lily to Lizzie, I don't believe it's quite all about the money.

But he said he couldn’t get a job because it would get in the way of his art. And his job was looking after Lily-wasn’t there some bullshit about cooking delicious meals for her to come home to?

That's why I said 'virtually unemployable'. Of course he might pick up a job - but then he'd have to abandon his stubborn interpretation of himself. So far he's been able to persuade Lily to reluctantly provide the mirror for his personal aspirations.

I agree he's not exactly all about the money - but he needs someone to leech off, and only someone vulnerable (teenaged? depressed? whatever) would put up with him for more than ten seconds.

I can’t remember if we’ve heard whether his wife has initiated divorce proceedings? Russ presumably doesn’t have any grounds on which to file for divorce. From Lily’s comment the other day I couldn’t tell if there were in the midst of sorting out a financial settlement or at the start of the process.

Children have never been mentioned so I think we’re safe to assume there aren’t any.

At the risk of sounding as if I am sticking up for Russ (I'm not), it isn't that easy to get a little job in a posh deli or cafe if you are in your, ahem, middle years. The chains have fiendish recruitment procedures, including group exercises with super-keen youngsters all desperate for as many hours as they can get (and the management know this), so your 40-something looking for 10 hours a week to fit in around existing commitments is less attractive (and probably more expensive). And the independents have less churn of staff and more precarious cashflow.

Not, of course, that Russ has even tried.

True Cromer - but Russ has no existing commitments!

Russ isn't actually evil

Well, he's done nothing to stop a situation whereby some poor landlord was hundreds if not thousands of pounds out of pocket, and quite probably even more so if s/he had to pay out to have them evicted. That's quite evil.

I speak from bitter experience as someone who owned a property we weren't able to sell when we moved away for work, so we had to rent it out. The rental income didn't even cover the mortgage payments, plus there were all the maintenance costs. And all the while we were also paying out on the place we were actually living in. I would have taken a very dim view of a lodger in his 40s who had deliberately not looked for work and so left me below the breadline.

I don't think 'evil' is confined to the likes of the Titchners. If you are so self-centered as to be completely indifferent to the potential impact of your life choices on others, that's evil.

True! Russ's ethical standards seem to be uniformly low.

Actually (and I really must get back to rl soon) on the Russ isn't actually evil point - he is.

Freddie probably wouldn't be where he currently is if Russ had behaved with an ounce of the adult responsibility expected of him. He deliberately left Freddie at (was it?) Ellis's mercy to preserve his own position. He's very much to blame there.

the Gwen John will be the price the gods of youthful recklessness make Lily pay to be rid of him

I think Russ will turn very nasty. His take , if Lily wants to dump him, will be Lily destroyed his marriage and his career. He is unemployable in a teaching role (given that dodgy private schools who will take any one cheaply no longer exist outside of Evelyn Waugh novels). Kenton shopped him to the college.

He has no legal basis but I can see Russ saying he won't leave without a payment.

Would rent arrears have an effect on Lily's credit rating, which would then mean she will have some issues with running LL?

Probably only if they pursued her and she ended up with a CCJ but I can’t see it coming to that.

Hello all! I had to pop in and say how much I enjoyed the Lizzy therapy episode. Haven’t caught up with last night’s yet, off I go now to listen.