Thread 99 (yes, 99!): Join us for spirited discussions of The Archers and its Top Blokes, whether you're Team Elizabeth (low spirits), Team Kate (Spiritual Home) or Team Toby (spirits =gin)

[Bittermints]

Thanks due to @PseudoBadger for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads and to @DadDadDad for being our resident statistician and keeping the ball rolling when Pseudo stepped back a bit. Thanks also to all those who contributed to the thread title.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like to be Susan's best friend or other odd unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3439443-keep-it-to-yourself-the-archers-spoilers-thread-4, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

So, to business. What a fantastic two-hander. Massive BOOP points to Alison Dowling, the scriptwriter and director (and the therapist). I had more than a small tear in my eye listening to that.

I'm another one with a vote of thanks to chemenger for all that information on the last thread about distilling. I should know some of that because I went on a tour of the whisky distillery near where my parents live but I've forgotten most of it except how delicious the end product is.

It’s amusing that the much-derided Sharon brought up a nicer child than Pat and Tony

Johnny is a real credit to Sharon.

Tom is vile.

And what do we think that phone call to Elizabeth's answering machine is all about
Wasn't it simply that it's now dawned on Jill that all may not be well at LL?

I think Jill think Lizzie thinks Leonard isn't worthy of replacing Phil and wants to go round and tell her that she's only got a few years left and she's not going to let anyone, not even her own children stand in her way, and Phil wouldn't have wanted that either.

Elizabeth will either get all affronted that her mother thinks that of her and hasn't noticed her daughter falling apart that she will not tell her about the depression and Jill will go off thinking it's all about replacing Phil. Or Elizabeth will tell her about the depression and Jill will feel really guilty about having been too wrapped up in Leonard and not noticing her daughter and we'll have to live through endless episodes of angsting about it all from all sides.

Meanwhile, Tom is blind to the possibility there could be other opinions than Natasha's, especially not from his yokel family, and will take it out on Johnny, regardless of what he actually says. (I vote team Johnny, who had thought about things using his brain rather than his dick.)

I remember the stained glass scene, indoorvoice, it was lovely and refreshingly honest an un-old-lady-like - they were talking about putting a brick through it! I agree about Kirsty and with what inky said a few days back - Roy's advice was dreadful and just a massive projection of his problem onto someone else's life.

Tom is really very tedious and clearly needs a more serious crisis or breakdown of some kind in order to grow into a real person rather than the desperate wannabe Success that he's been for his adult life so far. Failing that perhaps him and Natasha can emigrate.

Grace was Toby's Aunt (or half/step Aunt) but dead before he was born.

I'm sure Shula went to the Grammar as I remember her getting cross when Borsetshire went Comprehensive, and her old school closed/became the Sixth Form college. It's one of the reasons they sent Dan to the Cathedral school.

But whatever happened to the cash she gave to Kirsty when she was expecting that twat’s child?
After the miscarriage, Kirsty went round to see Peggy to return the cash but Peggy told her to keep it.

But what did she do with the money? It was made out to be a significant amount, several thousands in my head. Enough to leave Ambridge.
Maybe she squandered it on an expensive pair of binoculars and a new hair shirt.

I seem to remember that it was £10k. Presumably it will tide her over whilst at University (that is still going ahead, isn't it? has she actually applied?)

And another thing, why is Cathy now non speaking?
She had some cracking story lines, albeit she was a bit, well, dull
Also, At one time she was best friend to everyone, especially Pat, but not a peep when Helen was in prison, too busy folding towels at Greygables perhaps.

I hope Kirsty does get out f Ambridge, to uni or better still, running a wildlife reserve n some remote RSPB island on the west coast of anywhere but Borsetshire

Maybe she squandered it on an expensive pair of binoculars and a new hair shirt.

And another thing, why is Cathy now non speaking?

I think there may be a sad reason for that. Not sure when this was written.
ammf.org.uk/cc-day-25-guest-post-by-hedli-niklaus/

We never hear from Cathy's son either. I assume he's now a tree surgeon. You would have thought he'd pop into the Bull from time to time.

If Shula wasn't doing the right subjects that may show a lack of initiative on her part as it was all set out in the UCCA guide, which my school had in the careers room. We were advised to consult it well before choosing our A level subjects.

But back then, before the National Curriculum and mandatory science, it wasn't unusual for girls to severely limit their choices back at the O level stage. In my year only one other girl did physics and not many others did chemistry. I'm not sure but I think some may not even have done biology either.

I'm sorry, I'm late to the party here, but I've been wondering - what will happen about Lily's student loan for tuition fees? Hopefully only the first tranche was paid, in September? Will she be allowed to start again and be given the money for the first year of the course a second time? (I don't know how student loans work as we live abroad so daughter wasn't granted a student loan.)
Said daughter and her flat-mate (both currently students at Manchester University) are paying £800pcm for a flat in a new block in a "naice", central, area of Manchester. They are discussing whether to stay there for another year as they will be liable for council tax as my daughter will no longer be studying. To our amazement, the council tax for that flat (£1,600) is at a higher rate than that for a recently-renovated, larger, though much older, flat just off Wimbledon Common! So I agree that Lily will easily have run through her maintenance loan by now, since it appears Russ is contributing absolutely nothing, financially!
As an aside, I hope Russ hasn't already persuaded Lily off-air to sell the Gwen John to support his lifestyle.

About Kathy, I'm fairly sure Hedli Niklaus carried on speaking in TA till at least a couple of years after she wrote that blog entry about her husband in 2011. I think she was one of Sean whatshisname's casualties, I remember seeing a comment she posted about her sadness at having been written out of TA, so I don't think her non-participation in recent years was of her own volition. I think she still runs "The Archers' Addicts" page on FB, though I may be wrong. Kathy's son, Jamie, was written out at the same time as she was, presumably also unwanted by SOC (who, you will remember, re-cast the Tom actor for no good reason at all, except, presumably, nepotism!).

I'm afraid I was right, (not sure if I speculated here or elsewhere, sorry) Mia does have her sights set on replacing Nic for William, given the tone of voice of that comment she made about not being interested in "boys" in the context of Ruari.

Waves at everyone, new and and not-so-new, over-invested and not-so-over-invested

But they didn’t write Kathy and Jamie out properly. In fact they inexplicably gave Kathy a much higher-profile job as manager of GG then stopped her speaking, leading to all sorts of convoluted excuses for why the manager was not in air when there was a GG storyline. And people just stopped mentioning Jamie but they never even said that he had moved away or anything. He’d be old enough to have a wife and a child now, would be nice if someone talked about him now and again- like his step Mum Jolene for eg.

what will happen about Lily's student loan for tuition fees? Hopefully only the first tranche was paid, in September? Will she be allowed to start again and be given the money for the first year of the course a second time? (I don't know how student loans work

You are entitled to apply for a loan to cover the years a new course last plus one, minus the years already studied at the same level (i.e. undergraduate). So she has received one year of funding. If she drops out and reapplies for a new course lasting three years, she will get three years of funding from SLC.

If she dropped out under 3 months into her course, she would not be entitled to tuition fee loan for this year so would have to pay it back herself. But it looks like she has stayed over 3 months so that's ok.

If she received any LEA funding (you never know what their finances are actually like, despite living in a stately home), that stops on the day you stop attending lectures, not when you officially drop out. She would have to repay anything received since then.

Welcome!

Will she be allowed to start again and be given the money for the first year of the course a second time?

Yes - the general rule is that the loans (tuition fees and maintenance) cover a full-time undergraduate degree (which can be a 4year integrated masters, and more for medics etc) plus one extra year if necessary to allow a bit of flexibility for dropping out and returning to study. I guess this was necessary as quite a lot of new students do realise they've chosen the wrong course or university. For many students, they'll never repay the balance of their loan anyway so that would make no difference to their effective 'graduate tax' payments.

Completely agree with you, Jessie, the whole thing is quite infuriating. Recently, it's been as if Jamie had never existed. Also, I'm sure it must have been remarked on here at the time, but why was Kathy not around regularly for Pat to confide in at the time of Helen's trial, for example?
Fink, thank you for the explanation, it took me a while to understand it but I think I got there in the end! So if she wanted to do a post-grad when she finished her first degree after starting her 3 year course course again in September, she wouldn't be able to apply for a student loan for it but she would have if she had stayed the course this academic year?

So if she wanted to do a post-grad when she finished her first degree after starting her 3 year course course again in September, she wouldn't be able to apply for a student loan for it but she would have if she had stayed the course this academic year?

No. A postgrad loan would be a completely separate loan anyway. And the repayments run concurrently so in reality double graduate tax. Postgrad masters in my DDs field are almost entirely overseas students, she's doing an integrated one.

(I assume there must still be PhDs still funded by the research councils and/or industry.)

Thank you, Errol - I've just seen your first explanation, which I hadn't done when I wrote my reply to Fink, so now all is clear
Thank you for the welcome, if it was for me, though I've been on here on and off under different names for a few years now, I think my original name was Dumdedumdedum, actually!

The situation with Kathy is ridiculous, Roy frequently refers to her.

My own theory, with absolutely no foundation in fact, is that they are paying the Troughton family so much because of the supposed attraction of the "big name" actors, that they can't afford to pay Kathy and Jamie any more!

[Name-changing long-time lurker here! Really enjoy this thread so thank you for repeat editions ! Apologies in advance for following jumbled thoughts!]

Yes poor Kathy - agree it's ludicrous - one can only assume she is confined permanently to a cupboard in the GG's laundry room.

And yes, well done Johnny! I also hope that Tom has some sort of serious crisis that turns him in to a decent human being. I think perhaps this might involve dumping Natasha and getting back with Kirsty although I wouldn't wish that from Kirsty's pov! I thought Tom appeared a little too interested in Kirsty moving in with Philip perhaps or was she boasting about it purely to "keep her end oop" as my Yorkshire granny used to say?

And agree with pp about the person playing Brian being a good actor. Although dare I say I heard him interviewed on a Radio 4 book programme and, well, there didn't seem to be a huge difference between his own character and that of Gentleman Farmer Aldridge?

Btw, was anyone else waiting for Elizabeth to ask Lily what exactly Russ was intending to do until October? Or did their conversation imply that Lily was going to dump him?

Finally, just wanted to say I am enjoying TA so much more of late since; well since SoC's departure! All credit to the current sws for turning things around!

Sorry - over-excited - far too many exclamation marks in my last post.

Charles Collingwood book programme here

was anyone else waiting for Elizabeth to ask Lily what exactly Russ was intending to do until October?

I thought it had been established that he was going to be providing nutritious meals for Lizzie.

Finally, just wanted to say I am enjoying TA so much more of late since; well since SoC's departure! All credit to the current sws for turning things around!

Yes - though clearly the SWs do depend on the editor and the overall arcs that are set in motion.

Re Cathy and Jamie - yes, it's poor that they almost disappeared off the scene and are barely mentioned. I was more put out by the elimination of Hayley and all the Tuckers bar Roy - they were good characters and there was so much scope for interesting stories re Bethany and older parents. Too good perhaps, versus focussing on the Archers clan and more directly associated people.