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Original poster

The Archers: Discussion #84. New Year and some of us are still listening even if we don't know why.

978 replies

DadDadDad · 05/01/2018 10:18

New posters welcome - with your fresh views and burning questions.

Old posters welcome - with your jaded views and knowledgeable answers.

But new posters feel free to be jaded, and old posters feel free to ask questions!

How is the Pip storyline going to play out and do you care?

As usual, if you want to mention the advertised storylines for future episodes, there's a separate thread for that - no spoilers here, please.

Just imagine we're all sitting round a table at The Bull --> Archers

OP posts:
Fink · 02/02/2018 06:37

Have you ever heard any American saying 'legerdemain'? It's horrible, they pronounce it phonetically. I was trying to get all high and mighty and convince someone that as it's a French phrase you have to keep the French pronunciation, but when we resorted to wiktionary it turns out that phonetically is the legit US pronunciation ... we do it properly in the UK though. Grin

Fink · 02/02/2018 06:40

Makes it sound like 'ledger domain', the place where D3 dwells!

cheminotte · 02/02/2018 08:13

Just had to google the meaning despite speaking French! I was reading demain (tomorrow) rather than de main (of hand).

Gruach · 02/02/2018 08:41

I looked it up too! See it so rarely. The good thing is that 'light of hand' will remind me of how to pronounce 'sleight' - which somehow always foxes me.

Thanks echt!

echt · 02/02/2018 09:00

Thanks for the congrats on an early start with a posh word. I posted that on a Friday arvo after a shithouse week back at work. I'm amazed my brain was functioning.:o

BashStreetKid · 02/02/2018 09:07

Surely Emma needs to grow up a bit and get rid of those massive chips on her shoulder especially now she's a parish councillor? She seems to resent automatically anyone who gets a casual job she decides should have gone to Eddie or her; and she was so blatantly biased against Brian she should have realised it would have been massively inappropriate for her to chair the meeting.

echt · 02/02/2018 09:32

Completely agree about Emma. While she's a tyro, her approach to Brine was completely wrong and fed into any ideas about her being out her depth. Can't imagine why the council doesn't have an intro session on how not make tit of yourself.

Gruach · 02/02/2018 10:02

It's an odd thing - our general attitude towards Emma. I've had occasion to lurk on rather too many GCSE/A' Level/Oxbridge entry threads lately and it's just occurred to me that Emma didn't go to university.Shock (And nor did either of her parents.)

It's an experience that so many of us take for granted. And we learn so much about how to navigate in the world (even if we utterly fail to put it into practiceHmm). I'm realising that I haven't truly been using much imagination in my Ambridge listening ...

BertrandRussell · 02/02/2018 10:06

I’m definitely Team Emma!

Original poster
DadDadDad · 02/02/2018 10:45

Just been in a meeting with our Finance department, so definitely prowling around my ledger domain -

OP posts:
ADarkandStormyKnight · 02/02/2018 10:46

Emma has never had the opportunity to broaden her horizons, due to poverty, early motherhood, and marrying within the village. But she has ambition and drive. and pride.

I can understand her frustration at other people getting breaks through family connections when she is constantly propping up the Grundies and trying to make a better life for her and Ed on three minimum wage jobs.

MikeUniformMike · 02/02/2018 10:57

Is St Leger the patron saint of accountant who can't spell?

MikeUniformMike · 02/02/2018 10:58

accountants.

birdsdestiny · 02/02/2018 11:19

Also Emma may not have been impartial but neither was David. His main objective appeared to be to make sure Brian wasn't upset.

BertrandRussell · 02/02/2018 11:49

Yeah-David was shocking last night- all us landowners need to stick together........

AuntyElle · 02/02/2018 12:19

And Kenton sticking his dumb oar in... Confused

birdsdestiny · 02/02/2018 12:56

It's just David is used to the way these things work so is able to hide his bias more easily than Emma.

Bekabeech · 02/02/2018 14:10

Didn't David used to be chair of the Parish Council?
In my experience similar organisations and villages can still have a lot of class and "ancestory" biase. So Ambridge is quite progressive to have Neil as an incomer of lower class at the Chair.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 02/02/2018 14:46

Re not going to university - it's not something I take for granted. Back in the 70s when I was a teenager I think it only around 10% of the population went on to university or polytechnic or equivalent study/training, and many people didn't even stay in school long enough to do CSEs, let alone O levels or A levels. You could leave at the end of the term when you were 16, and lots did. Neil and Susan would have fallen into that demographic, and so would Mike, Betty, Eddie, Clarrie, Jolene, Wayne, Sid).

The Archers, being a bit wealthier, would have had no pressing financial reason to get their kids out of school and into a job, so they were more likely to stay on beyond minimum leaving age, and in fact David did do A levels and go to agricultural college. But even in this comparatively wealthy family he was the only one out of the four siblings to go onto HE. Kenton left at 16 and went into the Merchant Navy, Shula left at 16 and eventually scraped through professional training to be a chartered surveyor (or was it a Land Agent?), with later study to get equestrian qualifications. Elizabeth dropped out of sixth form college and later did a short marketing course.

Tony - ag coll? Jennifer - teacher training. Lilian - nothing.

Next generation - I don't think we know what James did. My hunch is he went straight into the city. John - nothing past sixth form as far as I can remember. Helen - ?HND in cheesemaking. Tom - nothing past sixth form. Adam - degree in agricultural economics. Debbie - dropped out of her degree in the second year. Kate - nothing past O level till the preposterous episode where Felpersham accepted her to do a Master's level course on the strength of a short booklet she'd plagiarised from the internet written. Alice - engineering BSc and MSc but all abandoned now so that she can be a sales rep. Hmm

As for the young ones from poorer families, Roy and Brenda - degrees from Felpersham. Chris - qualified as a farrier after apprenticeship. Will - some sort of basic qualification in gamekeeping. Jamie Perks - training in arboriculture, last we heard. Ed - nothing. Em - a basic catering qualification. Susan wanted her to stay on at school and study, but she refused.

That spread strikes me as quite realistic. They all left school at a time when grants were available, or at any rate before fees went up and student loans became huge. Even so, they didn't all want to go into HE or meet the criteria. Lots of invisible barriers to doing that.

Gruach · 02/02/2018 15:34

Well yes.

Invisible barriers notwithstanding, it seems incredible now that so many (real and fictional) people didn't take up the possibility of a free university place. But there were jobs for non-graduates ... And I guess if everyone had decided to go, those glorious days would have come to an end even sooner.

And of course the next generation of landless Ambridgeites will be even more stumped. Quickie degrees at University of Just Down the Road You Can Live at Home - if they're really bright and really keen. George f'rinstance.

Am feeling my age ...Sad

Original poster
DadDadDad · 02/02/2018 15:37

Thanks, Gasp0de, for such a detailed survey.

I think I'll start the next thread in a moment.

OP posts:
Gruach · 02/02/2018 15:38

(I am sure two year degrees and living at home are perfect for many people and enable access to degrees that would otherwise be impossible - but I hate the way they are being introduced as part of a divisive, cost cutting political agenda.)

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 02/02/2018 15:46

Well, lots of reasons why people in the past didn't go to university.

(I can just about get this in before the next thread, I think!)

  1. No pressure to go from home or school, quite the contrary in many cases.
  2. No difficulty in getting a job without a degree.
  3. Promotion prospects for bright, hardworking non-graduates were good in many careers.
  4. Employers saw it as part of their obligations to provide training for their staff.
  5. Universities didn't have the capacity to take nearly half the school leaver population.
  6. Perception (not necessarily correct, perhaps) that only the very brightest were up to university level study, or indeed any formal exams.

Just about all of that has changed now, and it's not all been positive by any means.

birdsdestiny · 02/02/2018 15:58

With regard to TA there is a simpler explanation. First rule of soaps, no one is allowed to get a job more than 3 miles from where they live. This means degrees are not necessary Grin

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 02/02/2018 16:11

@birdsdestiny, well, yes, accepted! Grin Hence why they have incomers to do the jobs you can't qualify for at the world-renowned University of Felpersham - doctor, vet, vicar, solicitor.