Christmas is coming, the geese are getting fat, please put a penny in Joe Grundy's hat. Discuss The Archers here.

[PseudoBadger]

Ho ho ho! Will this thread last until Christmas?

Based on what she knows (and we know she knows) there is no way Helen could have read Knob's behaviour other than for what it was - a crass attempt to manipulate her in his old style. She fell for his charm before, but she sat in prison contemplating how she'd been hoodwinked by him. He's resorting to his old charm - even throwing in the vicar to strengthen his case - but I don't believe for a second that Helen would be swayed again. So I just don't understand why the new, strong Helen wouldn't be reporting him - maybe she still will.

Perhaps she thinks she's strong enough to deal with it alone? She wouldn't have wanted to burden young Johnny with it, and can you imagine Pat's reaction?

I suspect that's right. If my mother fussed around the way Pat did about that trip to see Jess, I think I might well feel the need to keep quiet around her.

I think Helen should return the presents - Henry's at least - via Alan, and have a chat with him about what Rob said. Usha can confirm his foot in door tendency too.

I want to know what that book was. The one I'm sure its not is David Copperfield. Before the stabbing I was thinking this was the next literary parallel.

Will she or Henry have been assigned a social worker?
If not Pat, she needs to tell someone about each encounter, including him turning up to the school play so that someone is logging this.
We know he's going to continue this line so long as he thinks it is having an effect on her.
It's going to be incredibly difficult to refute someone who is perceived to be converting - but that's what he's going to pretend to be doing.

I wondered if Rob's new tactic has anything to do with the supervised access arrangement - he's practising for trying to get the supervisor onside and feeling sorry for him.

Henry and Jack should have a social worker and be on a child in need plan. They should have a HV who is closely working with both children's services and the family and signposting to The Freedom programme/ Triple R. In fact I'd have thought attendance at one of those would be a part of the Child in need plan. But hey, why let RL get in the way...

Tbh having heard a snippet of Helen today I'd put money on her going back to him.

And in other RL news...it's my birthday and my MIL gift was the "For the love of the Archers, an unofficial companion" book.Goes very nicely with last year's Archers pinny

Happy birthday Gypsy. Excellent present.

I found myself agreeing with Ruth on Friday, which is a new and somewhat disturbing reaction for me. She was right - it WOULD be awkward for everyone if Pip and Toebeee went to Brookfield for Christmas, and all Pip is old enough to want to spend Christmas with her boyfriend.

I sympathised with the 'your mother' line too. Jill is being a complete pain in the backside over the relationship, and I'd be cross in Ruth's position.

Obviously Pip is deluded for thinking she and Toebee are Love's Young Dream, but it's HER CHOICE.

And hurrah for Helen. I hope she stays as strong as she sounded when she sent him packing.

Happy Birthday, Gypsy

I'm struggling to think of anything I could care less about than Roooof's Christmas.

Pips Xmas?

Oh, isn't it time for a new Henwee? He still sounds like a 2yo

Oh dear yes indeed. Pip's Christmas.

Oh, isn't it time for a new Henwee? He still sounds like a 2yo

Yes.

And stop begging, Ruth. That's why your daughter is such a spoilt arsehole.

Oh fgs are those actors paying the BBC to be included? It's the only explanation.

Go Jill!

I know it's already been said up thread, but when is someone going to remind Ruth that she didn't give a toss about the family 'being together' last Christmas. So precious and fragile was she that poor David didn't even mention his accident!

Exactly Vango. Everything that Jill does for 'Her Family" is irrelevant. She's such a self-absorbed whinger (and the only farmer I've ever known who can get days off to go to a spa/lunch out/extended holidays etc). She needs to pluck her head out of her arse and realise a) her daughter isn't that great and b) without Jill she'd be properly up shit creek. Or still in New Zealand, making excuses procrastinating.

Haven't listened yet.

Just popped in to say the second Academic Archers conference is open for bookings: here at Lincoln
Hope that posts okay.

Ruth is behaving like a spoiled brat. Jill - run away to Lower Loxley and leave them to it.

I haven't heard tonight's yet, this is a bit of a tangent.
With all the recent reporting on leather trousers, does anyone remember a storyline when Caroline sold off her wardrobe to fund something or other? If I remember properly ( and it isn't my imagination at work) her leather trousers were bought by Susan Horrobin ( it was a long time ago) and Shula and Caroline had a snidey sort of chat about what Susan would want with them?
It comes to something when newspaper stories just remind you of ancient Archers episodes!

Well, having just listened, I did think Jill (whinging, querulous, boring Jill) was actually going to come up with some specific reason when challenged by Ruth (whinging, hysterical, boring Ruth) as to why she disliked Toby so much. But she didn't''. Nobody in The Archers is behaving as people would actually behave.

To be fair Cromwell, Jill's given her reasons on more than one occasion and is probably sick of repeating herself! She doesn't like Toby and doesn't want to spend time with him. Just like at her birthday celebration, they're expecting her to put aside her feelings for Pip's sake again. Brookfield is her home as much as theirs. She's entitled to have a view. Having said that, she hasn't even been given a chance to express an opinion about his attendance on Christmas Day. They've all just assumed she'll make things difficult.

I hope Jill decides to ask Elizabeth if she can spend the day with them and leave Ruth to burn her own Christmas dinner.