Christmas is coming, the geese are getting fat, please put a penny in Joe Grundy's hat. Discuss The Archers here.

[PseudoBadger]

Ho ho ho! Will this thread last until Christmas?

Does it matter whether it is on purpose or not?

Does it matter whether it is on purpose or not?

It's having the same effect of separating her from her family as Rob's influence did. Helen was just as hell bent on having Rob as Pip is on having Toby. Toby is every bit as selfish as Rob, possibly for different reasons though he did point out to Rex a while back that she's heiress to a farm.
No doubt we'll learn more when the Brighton thing is revealed. I hope that is worth waiting for.
I don't think it will be as successful a story line as the Hel/Rob one if only because the actor and actress in that one aren't anything like as good as Tim and Louisa. It seems to me as though the bottom of the barrel is being scraped for interesting events happening at Brookfield and the focus has to be dragged back to Brookfield somehow.

I think he targets women who will give him what he wants at that time. He definitely sees pip as a meal ticket. I would say that's just as calculating as knob. And he is not Bly charming when he needs to be - he can be pretty unpleasant to those he doesn't feel he needs to be nice to.

An abuse sl so close to Helens would be too much and agree they can't act for toffee

I think that the actors who play the Fairbrothers are good actually, I'm warming to both of them. Pip seems to be the idiot at the moment, obviously the money from her cattle is burning a hole in her pocket.

It's true Toby actor is quite good, he just gets tainted by having to act against the useless Pip actor. I don't feel I've really heard enough from Rex to judge.

I loved the scorn in Kate's voice towards Toby.

So we've had an update about Nole and Sipho, there's the chance of a phone call from Debbie, surely it can't be long before they let Kathy out of the Grey Gables broom cupboard?

A bit of, hell hath no fury there, I think?

I think toby's motivation and MO do matter - for one thing, when events start to turn against him (as surely they must....please...), he'll cheerfully bugger off, maybe leaving Pip heartbroken, rather than determinedly staying.

I agree - he hasn't ever shown the sort of staying power required to take revenge like Rob mght, and store up every possible slight in his memory for future use against his enemies.

But if he sustains the behaviour for two years does it make it any better that he then just buggers off?

In fact, he's probably the kind to do a moonlit flit and leave her in uncertain anguish for years

I don't think Toby will do anything malicious, but he will do something very stupid, possibly illegal and get Pip in trouble whilst losing her money. Then he will fuck off and Pip will make a play for Rex who will hopefully tell her to do one.

I expect Tobee to do something 'malicious' like cheating though, unless he's already cheating on a woman in Brighton of course. He just seems like the type who thinks with his dick, though I agree that doesn't usually involve great scheming as per Rob. We'll have to see anon ....

A character missing in inaction, who I've been wondering about, is Christine. Last time I recall her 'featuring' was as a silent making yet more scones in the Lodge kitchen. I wonder how old her actress is? I assume similar to the character. They could just kill her off soon - and let Peggy and Jack or Jill get their house back.

arghhh.....Henry....nativity play.....Rob.....argh

It will galvanise Helen

Daddddeeee! I can picture it now.

Goodness this is very understanding from Helen. Bit concerning that last line.

Knew he was going to show up when he asked Alan about the nativity. I thought the fog had cleared and Helen had figured Rob out. Obviously not quite.

Can anyone explain to me why the Grundys live in such penury? They have 3-4 at least NMW incomes coming in which, even if they're not all working full time plus Joe's pension and tax credits and child benefit for Ed n Emma.

They should have a joint income of at least £1,000 a week and while that isn't an enormous amount to live on, they should be able to pay the rent, especially with all their side ventures.

Pip's deliberately 'honeyed' tones (I'm assuming that's what she's aiming for?) are just vom-inducing. How much is the cow money? She's only been going out with Toebee for about 6 months - would she really sink her entire fortune into his venture? I wish she weren't portrayed as quite so stupid.

And whither Cathy?!

Bit late with this but I just wanted to go back to the Ruth-Susan dialogue

The utter horror in Susan's voice when she said "LISTEN???" made me roar - similar to when she said "me? gossip?" or however it was worded recently. she really doesn't know herself very well

but the fact that she actually did listen to Neil this time was very well done. There are a lot of nice "old" Archers touches like that at the moment

It's funny, isnm't it, that we were all so furious with everyone for not doing anything about Helen and Rob, but when Jill tries to do something about Pip and Toby she's being bonkers.........

That's a very good point, Bertrand.

Tbf on this thread I think most are firmly teamJill!

But the way Jill is 'doing something' is so antagonist that it's unlikely to work. In the past on other issues eg private schools or hunting where she's disagreed with family members, I seem to remember her being calm and rational. She's really not behaving in her usual way

Toby is a dick. But he's not a controlling sociopath. And the reason Jill sounds bonkers to some of us is because she seems to dislike Toby not because he is a dick but because of his father - and that bit is irrational.

Pip definitely seems to lose her brains whenever a boy looks at her.

Also, Toby is clearly a very impulsive person. As such he is not particularly manipulative - he just can't plan that far ahead. For all his talks of the big picture etc, he is too lazy to put much work into anything, including controlling someone.