Elves have needs too - will there be a pheasants' revolt? Discuss The Archers here

[PseudoBadger]

I've just browsed Lowfield for the first time - they really don't like Pat do they!

I disagree Bertrand. Peggy would not have behaved the way she has towards Helen recently if she truly believed that all blame lay with Helen and Rob was a total innocent in all this.

Don't forget that Peggy still has no reason to suppose Rob anything but an innocent victim.

Peggy has just spent several intense days with Helen. Pleeeease will someone - anyone - have 'that conversation' with her.

I enjoyed last night's episode. Frustrating that Lilian and Peggy didn't go further and start putting the pieces together though:

"he went nuts!"
"how odd!"
"yes, let's have some lunch"
"ooh ok!"

Grrr :)

Oh good point enoch about Paul - yes he did get a bit domestic-abusey towards the end. I remember Lilian going from her usual punchy self to desperately trying not to upset him and pussyfooting around him the whole time.

Evidently Lilian has forgotten though...

I think Peggy's scenes with Helen have up until now suggested she does know that there's more to it than that unstable Helen stabbed her lovely husband. She asked Helen: 'is that what you're afraid of, that Rob will stop them loving you?' for example, which seemed to indicate that some pennies were dropping.

She's exhibiting some remarkable cognitive dissonance if she thinks that on the one hand Helen must be stood by at all costs, and on the other, has somehow framed this as all marriages having their ups and downs and it being important to stay on good terms! And if she thinks that on the one hand, against everyone else's advice, she should be at Helen's side during the birth, which isn't something I'd imagine she'd usually do - and having listened to everything Helen has said, that Helen would be anything other than horrified and violently opposed to her trotting off to Rob and Ursula with photos! That was really quite snakey to her grand-daughter, as she quite clearly didn't ask Helen if it would be alright.

(What a lot of quite appalling sentences: sorry!)

Peggy is the one person who has seen and spoken to Helen a fair bit since it happened AND has now seen "that side" of Rob too.

Surely the breakthrough will come from her?

Seek Or she may realise that, whatever happened between the parents, it makes sense to maintain some veneer of civility between inlaws to facilitate access when children are involved?

She seems to have some fellow feeling with Ursula about being a granny - tho' of course she's only seen one side of her.

Or she may realise that, whatever happened between the parents, it makes sense to maintain some veneer of civility between inlaws to facilitate access when children are involved?

Have you forgotten that BHC kidnapped Henry and only gave access when forced by the Courts? Does that count as a veneer of civility. I think not.

It's not for her to decide on the veneer, though, or how it should be put in place - I think it was really dim of her and quite unfair not to check with Helen that she'd be okay with it.

I disagree. I hate 'my baby, my rules'. Sometimes you need family to tell you that UABU.

But it is stupid to try to be fair and reasonable with BHC when they are not playing by Queensberry Rules.

But Helen isn't BU! Normally I would agree with you re. 'my baby my rules', but these are pretty exceptional circumstances, and if Peggy's gone to the bother of supporting Helen and listening to her say 'ROB MUSTN'T HAVE THE BABY' you would think it might have occurred to her to ask Helen if she'd be okay with her taking some pictures round in the interests of fairness!

Also, of course, the answer she received might have been illuminating.

And I'd have more sympathy for her if she hadn't framed the entire episode as 'a horrid thing that happened to me, Peggy', and then been persuaded to forget all about it over a lovely lunch with Lilian.

"And I'd have more sympathy for her if she hadn't framed the entire episode as 'a horrid thing that happened to me, Peggy', and then been persuaded to forget all about it over a lovely lunch with Lilian."

We donMt know what happened. She was understandably shocked and upset when she first talked to Lillian. And she must be shattered anyway. We don't know what happened next- how she will deal with this "new" side to Rob.

I don't think Peggy has grasped that BHC are not playing by normal rules. I'm sure Peggy is still thinking Rob is the victim, even though she is being brilliant at supporting Helen. Sometimes I put the inconsistencies in Peggy's behaviour down to bad writing, and other times I realise she is a 90 year old who deals with each event as she sees it at the time and doesn't try and join the dots.

She's behaving a bloody sight more consistently than all the other characters half her age!

Haha Bertrand.

I think it hasn't occurred to Peeggy that Rob would go for residency from the start, what with Helen being the mother, and mothers usually caring for babies, and Helen talking about the other women's babies staying there for months, and Rob still convalescing and so on. Plus it's the first time she's seen his charming side slip.

Peeggy? Other spelling options are available.

I so agree about that conversation with Lillian. Had it been me and my mum, I would have asked what exactly happened and we would have had a lovely time dissecting it, in the course of which I'm 99% certain we would have at least started making connections with what led Helen to stab him.

But I think the problem is the SWs aren't allowed to write realistic conversations like that, because SOC is playing this tedious game of keeping the tension going and never quite allowing any character to start putting two and two together.

I still maintain that anyone with an ounce of tact, especially a close family member, would or should really think to ask the mother in even the most usual of cases of estrangement from the father, whether she minded if you popped round with a framed photo. And in a case like this, to do so was really disloyal. And she is upset only on her own behalf, as far as we can see at the moment. Perhaps she'll think about it more in future episodes and put two and two together.

I'm still not sure that the penny has dropped with Peggy. When she talked about Rob's outburst, she said "he's normally so charming" as if this was an aberration and not his true colours. And rather than recognising that Rob is being her unreasonable, her upset seemed to be that she somehow might have made things worse between Rob and Helen (because obviously as SeekEvery said, violently stabbing your husband is just part of the ups and downs of marriage ).

What I really like to hear her say: "I told Rob he's called Jack, and he came up with this nonsense about Gideon - well I told him what he can do with that idea!".

To be clear, Seek, I was referencing your "ups and downs" remark at 10:34 and didn't see your latest comment as I was slowly typing my post.

I took Lilian's suggestion that they go for lunch as being precisely so that they could discuss the Rob outburst in person and in depth over some food. Surely they couldn't go an entire meal without talking about it?!

What I really like to hear her say: "I told Rob he's called Jack, and he came up with this nonsense about Gideon - well I told him what he can do with that idea!". 

I'm not hopeful. When Ursula said 'we really should have been consulted, didn't Peggy say yes, of course?

I'm not sure Jessie. Lillian has form in shutting down conversations about Helen's situation. This was not the first time she has airily moved the conversation on.

I'm agree with Augusta, SOC is trying to rack up the tension until it all comes out at the trial so characters are not allowed to have proper conversations. It's hugely frustrating as a listener and makes for bad drama.