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Discuss your favourite podcast, radio show or The Archers episode.

The Archers - It's so much more than just a soap. It's a bloody drama!

971 replies

PseudoBadger · 06/04/2016 13:37

Will it still be Sunday tonight?

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AugustaFinkNottle · 07/04/2016 19:33

No comment wouldn't help her at all since the right to remain silent has essentially been abolished in the UK "it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely on in court."

Not so. It's just a warning that, in some circumstances, adverse inferences may be drawn from your silence. According to Wikipedia:

"Adverse inferences may be drawn in certain circumstances where before or on being charged, the accused:

  • fails to mention any fact which he later relies upon and which in the circumstances at the time the accused could reasonably be expected to mention;
  • fails to give evidence at trial or answer any question;
  • fails to account on arrest for objects, substances or marks on his person, clothing or footwear, in his possession, or in the place where he is arrested; or
-fails to account on arrest for his presence at a place.

Where inferences may be drawn from silence, the court must direct the jury as to the limits to the inferences which may properly be drawn from silence. There may be no conviction based wholly on silence. Further it is questionable whether a conviction based mainly on silence would be compatible with the European Convention on Human Rights."

The issue in Helen's case is whether she could reasonably be expected to answer the questions. Her lawyer will presumably say that she was 34 weeks pregnant, traumatised, desperately worried about her child, and in particular suffering from the severe psychiatric damage inflicted by Rob, so it was entirely reasonable for her not to answer questions.

theDudesmummy · 07/04/2016 19:35

No, the defences for attempted murder are not the same as for murder.

AugustaFinkNottle · 07/04/2016 19:38

Much as I don't like Peggy, I did feel quite sorry for her today. Though I was extremely irritated by the suggestion that she send flowers to poor Rob. I know she doesn't know what's been going on, but it shouldn't be hard to work out that if her granddaughter's being held in custody she must be being accused of being responsible, and that it wouldn't be in the best of taste. To say nothing of the need to show some solidarity on the basis of having faith that her grandaughter may have had her reasons.

Mind you, she usually patronises Christine so much, there was a part of me quite enjoying the fact that she just couldn't in the current circumstances.

OneMoreStepAroundTheBendIGo · 07/04/2016 19:38

Rather than Peggy sending flowers, Christine should have offered to send a batch of her scones to U and B.

AugustaFinkNottle · 07/04/2016 19:39

If Knob is being hailed as Hero of the Flood, can we hope that David and Jenny will be irritated enough to revive their investigations into the culvert?

TopazRocks · 07/04/2016 19:40

I suppose the solicitor has realised the police officers are both quite aggressive, and that Helen isn't up to answering questions.

I wonder if Helen would really fight for the baby. She has zero feelings/enthusiasm for it and might be quite okay with him/her being adopted or brought up by the Titcheners. Just maybe, once it's born, she will tell the MWs why.Henry of course is a different story. IRL, she is v unlikely to be bailed on an attempted murder charge, is that right?

AugustaFinkNottle · 07/04/2016 19:40

OneMoreStep: Grin

WannaBe · 07/04/2016 19:41

Although when Rob dies the charge will be upgraded to murder.

What would be the protocol for Henry though? Would he be allowed to stay with Pat and Tony given the fact they may not agree to keep him away from Helen? Surely once Helen goes down he wouldn't be allowed to see her? And even if she wasn't found guilty of attempted murder, (or murder) the fact does remain that Henry witnessed a violent incident of this magnitude. Surely SS would need to be involved now regardless?

And the baby would almost certainly need to be removed at birth and ... Placed for adoption perhaps?

BeaufortBelle · 07/04/2016 19:42

Christine should be aiming her scones heavy missiles Bruce and Arse.

TopazRocks · 07/04/2016 19:43

BTW, IRL are there many women's prisons in west of England? One near Manchester, i think? Any others? Just as well Tony has recovered so well form this accident as he'll have travel a lot to see his daughter. Unless there's an Ambridge Prison fairy too. I like that idea!

BYOSnowman · 07/04/2016 19:48

Why wouldn't Henry be allowed to see his mum in prison?

theDudesmummy · 07/04/2016 19:51

Re who gets Henry: IRL, if Helen was in prison and Knob was dead there would probably be assessments of Pat and Tony, and other relatives. Re the baby: Urs and Bruce would also be assessed, and potentially Miles. Could get very complicated, too much so really for the Archers. I think there is likely to be a simpler story than what would actually happen IRL.

theDudesmummy · 07/04/2016 19:53

Children's Services will also have to assess what level of contact Helen gets with the children, whether she is in prison, hospital or released.

WannaBe · 07/04/2016 19:53

Because exposing a child to violence on that level is considered child abuse iirc. Henry would be considered as much a victim as rob, surely?

Wordsaremything · 07/04/2016 19:55

Attempted murder is terribly difficult to prove. Because you have to prove that the defendant intended to kill ( but failed obviously)

Remember that charges can change at any point as the evidence emerges during the investigation,and the defence can offer a plea to a lesser charge at any point. ( of course that might not be acceptable to the prosecution.)

In terms of sentencing, the fact that Henwee witnessed it all would be an aggravating feature. The fact she didn't bring the knife to the scene is important.

She's no commenting as she is still too distressed to give a coherent account and may inadvertently implicate herself. Her legal advisors are protecting her from herself.

Peggy is just awful. I would happily see P and Susan and Ruth along with Ursula and Brute trampled to death by a runaway Bartleby, startled by a bark from Scruff. ( broken bridle .)

TopazRocks · 07/04/2016 19:57

Yes, I thought they had prison visits for children too. Esp in women's prisons. Obvs he's too old for a mother and child unit. I don't suppose it's a long or frequent visit though. All a bit sad, esp for such situations IRL.Apart frm the annoying aspects (i.e. the recent twists) I'm finding it all quite depressing.

GypsyFl0ss · 07/04/2016 20:00

Topaz bampot is an awesome word that I only get to see in Christopher Brookmyre novels!

Thymeout · 07/04/2016 20:00

Assuming Rob is on the road to recovery, at what point will someone suggest that Henwee should visit Daddy in hospital, either to cheer Daddy up or reassure the child?

It'd be interesting to hear his reaction.

The most chilling aspect of Rob's survival would be if he were allowed to bring up Henwee. But why wouldn't he?

StubbleTurnips · 07/04/2016 20:01

Wanna I thought that they kept baby with mum in prison in specialist units, until they are around 18 m/o. Radio 4 had a programme on it a few weeks ago.

shinynewusername · 07/04/2016 20:01

Questions for the lawyers: is the charge of attempted murder potentially helpful for Helen as a higher threshold of proof for the prosecution to reach? With Henry and (indirectly) Kirsty plus possibly forensics to suggest a struggle, will it be hard to demonstrate intent? Am I right in thinking that there is no such crime as attempted manslaughter in English law?

So the charge of attempted murder raises the stakes but also raises the chance of acquittal - is that right?

shinynewusername · 07/04/2016 20:02

Cross-post with wordsaremything - you read my mind Smile

StubbleTurnips · 07/04/2016 20:04

Prisons with mother and baby units: www.gov.uk/life-in-prison/pregnancy-and-childcare-in-prison

AugustaFinkNottle · 07/04/2016 20:05

I suspect that they might ultimately add in an alternative charge of wounding so that if Helen isn't convicted of attempted murder she can still go down for the lesser offence.

I assume they've opted for attempted murder because of her saying she would kill Rob, but it seems a bit of a stretch.

WannaBe · 07/04/2016 20:05

I think that would depend on the sentence though. For attempted murder/murder the sentence would be too long to facilitate the baby staying with Helen and as such it would likely be removed at birth. And at that point SS would be faced with the dilemma of where it goes. Pat/Tony would be considered too old to become his permanent guardians surely? In which case I suppose Tom might be able to take him in, but if not I presume he would be placed for adoption?

It wouldn't be reasonable to pass a child around the family for ten years or so until it's mother came out of prison.

WannaBe · 07/04/2016 20:07

Or they could follow the other Eastenders storyline where cyndy was in prison for attempting to have Ian killed and died in childbirth?

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