50 ways to leave your lover. Get on the bus Gus, give a knife to your wife, Rob. How not to write helpful storylines masterclass from The Archers.

[PseudoBadger]

Poor poor Henry

KD implying it will be justifiable self (or Henry) defence.

I would absolutely LOVE to know how they could possibly, plausibly, argue self-defence, or defending another. Seriously? After that episode. Henry saw Mummy holding a knife. She was shouting. She had packed a bag ready to leave. When Kirsty phoned back Helen gave no indication that there was anything wrong. There are no witnesses. Even her closest relatives now consider her a fragile, moody, unpredictable, snappy character. If anything, it's starting to look more like murder!!!!!

Telegraph article:

"but what really jarred was the moment when he offered her a knife and told her to kill herself. Children are incredibly important to manipulative men and it’s highly unlikely that Rob would put his unborn baby – or himself – at risk of physical harm. The whole thing felt artificial, a clunky device to put a weapon in the hand of someone who would never have thought of picking it up on her own."

Me, yesterday, on this here thread:

"I am not convinced that Rob would have encouraged her to kill herself, as this would also have meant the death of SOK. It was quite a big gamble to bet on her not being blue to do it. While it allowed the SW to get in a nice barb with him saying "do what Greg did" it felt to me just like a device to get a knife in her hand without her choosing to pick one up."

If anything, surely Ursula could say that Rob was trying to protect Henry from Helen by looking into Boarding School? After all, one of them had to earn some money so he couldn't keep his eye on her all day every day and after the scalding incident they really couldn't trust her not to hurt him!

A Barrister writes here, re self-defence: www.newstatesman.com/culture/tv-radio/2016/04/barrister-explains-what-could-happen-archers-helen-court (Presuming that her grasp of law is better than the grasp of what an omnibus edition is.)

Tweeted link. (Lighthearted ...)

www.networks.nhs.uk/editors-blog/health-and-social-care-failings-led-to-ambridge-tragedy/view

That NHS link is hilarious. The best thing I've read about this.

But neither of them were being rational fgs, this whole SL wouldn't have happened if they'd been rational and actually thought through their actions.

Yes, written by a true fan with an ear for detail - I love "promising cricketer Mr Titchener".

I listened again and she told Kristy she thought she could just explain it to Rob, that she needed some space "for a few days"...she thought he would understand. that she owed it to him to explain why she was leaving... I dont think that is unrealistic, but it was very unwise. she should have talked it thru, safety planning etc with WA...

(I tried to explain to exp why I was going to leave in "family therapy"; he didnt believe this; in the end he got aggressive when he realized i had been to see properties to rent and attacked the cooker violently ripped off some plinths and smashed hob...then kicked me... I left then immediately with DC brought forward moving date...)

If the BBC wanted publicity they've certainly succeeded. I actually can't keep up with the articles - Suzanne Moore in the Guardian (talks vague sense but seems to have a piece of the argument missing), full statement from Women's Aid (acknowledging the sensible pov - but ...). Plus a few more.

Not sure about the single stab wound in the NHS article, sounds like she had a few goes at him as he started coming for her after the first one. Love the "face down in a bowl of custard" bit

If he is dead, whoever said upthread ( apologies for not name checking) that there would be no trial, and she'd plead to manslaughter has it right in my opinion.

Problem with Kirsty lying and saying she saw H being attacked: unless there were defence wounds, the other side would make a huge issue of there not being any, and pull the story apart. It could land K in a lot of trouble (as well.)

Love that nhs link!

I love that NHS link, especially the team of emergency script writers working round the clock. Thanks Gruach!

NC for this.

My Aunt killed her abusive DH in the kitchen in a similar fashion about 5 years back. She is now serving life in prison as her "defence" team (snort) chose to concentrate on her mild to moderate depression as constituting diminished responsibility, and mentioned not a word about the 35 years of abuse she had suffered because it was not (generally) physical violence - it doesn't need to be after a while - and they didn't think "speaking ill of the dead" would go down well with the jury. These things do happen and no appeal is possible on the basis of rubbish legal strategy - only on new facts, rather than facts known at the time but deliberately withheld from the jury by the defence. If Helen gets the same quality of legal advice as my Aunt, then she won't be coming out of prison any time soon. If no mention is made in court of Rob's abuse then Helen looks like a psychopath who should be locked up and have the key thrown away.

Side point: whoever said that Rob handing Helen the knife was a device to get the knife into her hand without her picking it up may be right. If a woman picks up a knife and "takes it with her" - perhaps from one room to another, say from the kitchen to the hall - then she is caught by the minimum sentencing laws aimed at gang members (taking a knife with you to the fight) and life really does mean life (or, more specifically, 25 years before you can even be considered for release on licence. At older middle age, that effectively means life without parole). Inasmuch as Helen deserves to go to prison for what she did, if it is found to be not self-defence (and that wasn't quite clear on the radio), then so does my aunt. But not for the rest of her life.

The think is, they could just as easily have got Helen with a knife in her hand if she'd been chopping vegetables or something.

Children are incredibly important to manipulative men and it’s highly unlikely that Rob would put his unborn baby – or himself – at risk of physical harm. Not sure where the author gets that idea??? On the other hand, if Rob is a psychopath, they are generally attracted to risk-taking and excitement, and can be impulsive - especially if it allows them to take centre stage, and also get a kick out of causing serious emotional pain.

Does anyone think he had a hand in the disappearance of that Polish chap? Maybe a body will be found in the woods, with Rob's DNA on it, in the nick of time to save Helen....

I'm very sorry to hear about your Aunt 51years. That's a terrible story.

The problem with any defence for Helen is that, even with the recent law change, there are no real 'facts' to present to a jury anyway. No-one has ever witnessed anything that could be described as abuse. Helen's always publicly agreed with his decision making (not driving/not working/not taking Henry to school) so it would surely be impossible to prove that any of it was coercive behaviour on Rob's part.

Rob's managed to convince everyone that Helen is the most important person in his life. That everything he does, he does for her. He's taken on her child, he's sacrificed his own job to help out in her family business, he's put aside his own feelings about his mother to accept help from her when Helen couldn't cope.

The Ambridge residents, even those who can't quite put their finger on why they don't like him, have given him credit for his heroics during the flood, consider him a team-player where the cricket's concerned and grudgingly admire him for taking on Helen and Henry.

51years . The Archers must be agony for you just now.

Just listening to it for the third time its sounds like he ells her to put the knife down and then rushes at her meaning she stabs him again.

Thanks Vango and Yesterday. I'm not sure what I think tbh. It is obvious that nobody should kill for any reason whatsoever (outside immediate threat to life) and my Aunt's position was incredibly similar to Helen's. Like Helen, she should have stayed away from danger - Helen should have scooped up Henry walked away during the day and gone to stay with her parents. My Aunt should not have gone round to her ex family house to discuss reconciliation with her DH. It's so difficult to understand why abused women don't leave, or don't leave effectively. I guess they don't recognise the abuse, and then, if/when they do, there is still part of them that hopes and is dependent on the partner so they are drawn into interactions. I agree with you Vango that when presented to a jury like that, Helen should go to prison for a long time. And (goes without saying) she should NOT have killed Rob! OTOH one has to feel sorry for her and have an understanding of how it all happened.

Independent - Grace Dent

Disappointingly disagreeing ...

(And R4 has just broadcast a thoroughly creepy podcast trailer for Hel/Rob.)

That's the trouble with it being on the radio. We can't see exactly what happened. Hopefully we'll hear Helen telling Kirsty what happened tonight.

gosh what a LOT of posts- just coming to mark my place and say I agree with the Telegraph analysis, last night was very, very disappointing in so many ways- the only things I can salvage from it are that
a- it highlights the extreme danger women are in at the point of leaving
b- he may not be dead, so he may yet face a trial himself once the police start investigating

Oh, and I feel like I and the rest of the family were like Pat (a bit). None of us could quite put a finger on why we disliked my Aunt's DH but the stuff that she told us after she was in prison was horrendous and suddenly made sense. .. we had all known separate bits over the years.