Badly done Helen, badly done - you're as stuffed as a Grundy turkey. Discuss The Archers here.

[PseudoBadger]

New thread in time for Friday's episode...

sure it's difficult, but they still have to be the person (indeed they are the only person) who can decide to get out, right?

I mean, how can you learn to do better in future if you don't take responsibility for your mistakes in the past?

Not talking about assigning morality or fault or blame etc.

D3 sadly the poster who said "it takes two to tango" came back to clarify that blaming Helen is exactly what she meant

He's raped her, gaslights her, is financially controlling, is isolating her from friends and family, he insults her, belittles her in company ...and yet some of you don't see this as abuse?

My gast is truly flabbered! And not in a good way.

Depressing reading.

I see it as abuse.

I think we're meant to identify it as abuse, no matter how obtuse SOC might choose to be.

What I find 'interesting' about it, in a fictional drama which I can stand outside, is that it is happening to a character who was/is less than popular. Her behaviour in the past is open to criticism and her behaviour now might leave us wondering what the hell she's thinking but he is undoubtedly abusing her very deliberately and systematically.

I've always detested Helen but I think it's a fascinating study of how easy it can be to become trapped. It's also fascinating that she's solidly embedded in a community and sprawling family while an outsider strips her of everything.

I agree with all of that, enochroot.

The way he manipulates her is becoming more and more sinister and chilling.

He is like a spider, strangling its victim with silken thread.

She hardly dare struggle. It seems to be dawning on her that she has sleepwalked into this. I have to keep reminding myself that it is fiction.

Poor little Henry.

Some horrify views on this thread, from posters I normally enjoy reading

Might stop reading for now

I wonder if it was a mistake for them to show us, much earlier and with such a weight of context, far more than Helen has so far been aware of.

It's been incredibly entertaining, sure, to be able to shout He's behind you!!! at the radio - but ... If we were learning about Rob at the same pace and with the same information as Helen it might be easier to follow her thought processes.

(Tying myself in knots here ...)

I think it's becoming too much of the sl's now though. We need some sort of end or denouement before we forget who the other characters are or we continue the cardboard cutouts because they don't have the time to develop new characters

I agree with so many of you above - and disagree with others. But what a fascinating and articulate discussion of a very complex topic. I was out last night so need to catch the film in the morning. It sounds like unpleasant listening yet again. I see Helen as a very vulnerable woman with various traumas in her past. She is only starting to get that she is trapped. But she si also pregant with achild she didn't want, and that makes her extra-vulnerable too. Henry was born small for dates, due to the pre-eclmpsia which might or might not recur. But Joe Grundy commented a few weeks ago that Helen Archer, there's nothing to her' (i.e. very slim). Does that mean she is already controlling her eating?

Now that he's trying to distance H from H, I wonder how the newly signed 'parental rights' order thingy (I know that's not the right name - memory is mince just now) will be used. Isn't Rob bound to change something in school against Helen's wishes? Not sure what that might be. Also, great scope now for Henry to have an 'accident' while in Rob's care. Doesn't need to be a big thing, but something manageable like a broken arm at teh swings where nobody is sure if he fell or was pushed when being taught to go higher and 'be a man'.

In some ways it's easier to enmesh somebody who has firm roots in a community- the victim has got more to lose, and people would think they know her so well and would be sure she wouldn't let that happen.

FourShore I feel the same

Gruach yes that is a point - we do know a lot more about Knob than Hellin does - the sab, the way he was with Charlie etc etc. She is in a real fog of confsion right now - which is exactly where Rob wants her

Yes, I know what you mean, BYOS, but it also feels too soon for a denouement as so much scope left it the EA story. And often it will take years for women to leave in such situations. However, if there is a denoument won't it be at the Christmas show?! Maybe if Pat is in the cast with Helen and sees some uber-control from the new SIL????? and speaks to Kirsty or Fallon, of course!

I think she is only just beginning to realise.

She is so desperate to be in a successful relationship. She has so much baggage her judgement is severely compromised.

R4 - I'm sure we are all seeing this through our own prism of personal experience, and that is partly why we see different things. None of our situations is exactly Helen's (not least due to the whole her-being-a-fictional-character thing )

I do see why you could think as you do.

I think your logic is wrong though:

Helen has all the unconditional support in the world
She could get herself out of this in a heartbeat.

Assumes that having unconditional support allows one to walk out of a bad relationship with no problem at all. There are many reasons pointed out above why this isn't so.

I'm sorry you experienced thatR4 but surely you must realise that not everyone will react the same way. And perhaps Helen (and RL women in EA relationships) will get herself out when she is ready. Not when you think she should. Or you lose patience with her "patheticness"

I dread to think that there are women in EA situations now reading this and thinking they mist be "pathetic" for not getting out and it partly their fault that they are in the situation

I wonder if the lack of compassion for Helen on this thread is a demonstration of a general lack of compassion in the real world for people who have MH difficulties, don't pull their socks up, sort themselves out, bladdy bla. I'm really not pointing at anyone in particular because a) I can't keep track of names, b) it's a discussion and we are all trying to make sense of it C) everyone ahs their own background which influences how they see these events.

R4, I have read about what you said about your parents. Point C above still applies IMO - you left/went NC with your parents. Does that perhaps make you view someone differently who did not leave (whatever abusive situation)?

BTW I have reservations about Pat as a mother. She is not 'all there' for her daughter. She si an opinionated, strident woman who does not listen. And has had her own share of problems that affect her. I am not surprised Helen cannot go to her. I may have been parented by such a woman. With repercussions for the rest of life. In my case I think my mother did her best with the hand life served her. I have almost forgiven her.

But pat has never shown any fondness for men not related to her and was always deeply suspicious of him. I find her volte face on that unlikely.

I see I have x-posted. Am now off to eat dinner and watch House Season Four (I think - more psychologically 'damaged goods', ha ha)

Rob is an arse, I'll cheer when he finally gets his comeuppance. (I suppose I like panto villains). Helen isn't an arse I want to see punished, but is deeply irritating & narcissistic in her own way. Actually, tbf, most of my relatives with mental health issues were similarly difficult & narcissistic.

My mom argued it was a lazy selfish cop-out to walk away from people with severe problems instead of trying to fix them. I'm content to be a bitch who protected my sanity instead of being sucked into thinking the crazy behaviour of relatives was acceptable.

Maybe this word "abuse" means something sacred and black & white to some posters about who is "good" and who is "bad". I still think Helen is supposed to be an ADULT. And nobody can improve their lives if they don't take responsibility for their own decisions, however incapacitated by mental illness, emotional baggage, etc. Taking responsibility isn't about morality or black and white thinking deciding who is good or bad. It's more like the serenity prayer, having courage to change the things you can.

(Say the adult child of an alcoholic...)

Now you've got me thinking this emotional abuse story really is going to run for years and be about Henry.

Grim though it is, I think it should run for a long time or it won't be realistic. Its not something you want to oversimplify.
(Ironically it was fone quite well in EE years ago. Up until the dramatic denoument).

I think Hellin is precisely that, trapped because it is difficult to gerself do a volte face over perfect Rob and if peoole asked her what he has done it might be very difficult to pin down and articulate except for that one thing that she might not want to talk about at all.

Plus the fact that she is now pg makes her more trapped although the one brightside is she does know she can cope with a baby without needing a man/father/husband.

But I still think when she does leave (fingers crossed) more will emerge that we didn't hear (as often happens once the victim feels they can finally admit to themselves and others).

Tbh it's not the sl that is making me fed up but the fact it is dominating the show