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Original poster

permitted development extension and upsetting neighbours...

54 replies

Elibean · 05/02/2010 14:07

..as in, the neighbours are upset

We've tried hard to make our planned extension fit with permitted development limits, and if it goes through the neighbours can't actually stop us building it - but I feel dreadful about creating upset and anxiety. They are all fairly elderly, and have seen no changes in their little row of semi-detached houses for at least 40 years - unlike most of our area, admittedly.

I'm going nuts trying to shave a few inches off the height, am wondering how short a door we can get away with, least pitch velux indows need, etc etc....but at the end of the day, we need the extension and we can't make it much lower or smaller or there's no point in doing it.

I suppose I'm looking for stories of upset/anxious neighbours who have come round when the reality has'nt been as bad as the idea.....or any ideas as to how to make it less awful/me feel less awful

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Original poster
Elibean · 05/02/2010 14:09

Am in SW London, if it makes any difference. Most of the area has extended semis in it.

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LeninGrad · 05/02/2010 14:10

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Original poster
Elibean · 05/02/2010 14:17

I think, mainly, just that its a change....but also that it will block a corner of their view across what are essentially big, open gardens. And a few minutes of early morning/late evening (depending which side they are) sun from their patios.

It won't actually affect their light.

Yes, we've spoken directly to both of them and its all civil and polite....just upsetting/stressful. The neighbours to the West (unattached) have asked if we can reduce the height by 12", but we can't really...unless we get rid of the pitched roof, and make the whole thing lower than the existing kitchen ceiling.

No, you're right, no point in compromising too much if they're going to hate it anyway. But maybe we can 'give' 6" without compromising ourselves, and they will at least feel we've heard their request - not that it'll be what they want, though.

Its supposed to be 3m out, and 3m high at the eaves...as per lawful development...

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LeninGrad · 05/02/2010 14:24

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paisleyleaf · 05/02/2010 14:24

It's tricky, I wouldn't like to lose view or sunlight.
I don't think there's much of a way around it for you - you just will upset them.

traumaqueen · 05/02/2010 14:29

will they actually notice if it is 6" lower than your rights? will it make any difference to them?

LeninGrad · 05/02/2010 14:36

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Cyb · 05/02/2010 14:39

We had this with our elderly neighbours, very resistant to us extending our house.

But it was more the noise and mess they were concerned about rather than how the building ended up.

She doesn't talk to us now. Which is no great loss, frankly.

Original poster
Elibean · 05/02/2010 14:56

I do remember being a bit pissed off/worried when our previous neighbours (different house) started building a side return extension. But once it was up, I got used to it very fast and honestly never thought about it, though it slightly changed our 'view'.

('view' is a tricky definition in London!)

I think we will piss them off no matter what we do.

Have also just had a call from the architect, saying basically we have almost no flexibility if we want to use roof tiles that match the rest of teh house (which the neighbours should be happy about, in fact) and have a pitched roof. So that, unfortunately, is probably that.

I think one side would probably deal with it ok, but the other I'm not sure...and they seem really nice

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Original poster
Elibean · 05/02/2010 14:57

Leningrad, we've explained the rules and why we need to do it...one side understands the former, but not the latter, the other side is the other way around

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lalalonglegs · 05/02/2010 15:47

I honestly don't think you should change anything - just because they are old doesn't mean their point of view is sacred. They are going to be unhappy whatever you do. Smile sweetly, say that you value their opinions and plough on regardless.

Cyb · 05/02/2010 15:51

Just try to keep them informed of when there may be lots of noise or mess and clear up their patch as best you can.

Toots · 05/02/2010 17:16

Feel for you. I have to take our loft plans round to our older neighbours this weekend and leave them with a party wall agreement to sign. There will be a dormer over the rear addition as well as main loft which will be wrapped round our shared rather dodgy looking chimney. Hope they can see it as an opportunity to shore that up.

I agee with lalalonglegs. Too irritating to live with the compromise. 6 inches is a lot of head height to lose.

castlesintheair · 05/02/2010 17:57

Eli, people don't like change and those who haven't seen it for 40 years on their patch are bound to have a real problem with it. I know it is especially hard for the elderly but, without wishing to sound mean, they have to accept that change happens. I don't see why you should compromise at all for them. It's not like you are doing anything illegal and as someone said, they probably aren't going to be 'happy' with whatever you do in the short-term. And, I'm not just saying this because I know that you would do anything to avoid upsetting anyone either.

Fwiw, everyone moans about all the work going on round here but they get used to the change very quickly. Just smile a lot. And buy them lots of presents

Blu · 05/02/2010 18:03

I think, as long as you are acting within Planning consent or whatever, you have to Just Do It.

The planning dept are there to make the decisions, not you, it isn't personal. And anyone who had moved in would do the same. If you sold and moved somewhere with the extension already built, your buyers would build an extension.

Be clear, direct, say you will not go beyond what is allowed within planning law, take them a bottle of wine when the builders arrive, to say 'sorry, it's going to be noisy', and invite them round when it's over. They will get used to it v quickly.

doubleexpresso · 05/02/2010 18:07

Agree with last 2 posters. You are increasing the value of your home and showing the potential for future buyers in your area. It's terribly difficult and they will probably continue to complain, but you are doing nothing wrong.

Original poster
Elibean · 05/02/2010 18:08

Thanks so much, all of you. I feel braver after reading your posts...Lala, you have a very good point: I think I still have a bit of 'elder=sacred' going from childhood. Plus I'm a wuss, and scared of being hated

I do respect their feelings, I do understand their upset, and at the same time we need to do what we need to do or we'd feel controlled and squished. May well have to come back to you for some re-inforcement later on in the process

And hello Castles, thanks for the personal vote of confidence...may refer neighbours to you for a character reference

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Original poster
Elibean · 05/02/2010 18:11

x-posted with a couple of you - thanks, too. We don't live there yet (which makes it harder and easier in different ways), just bought in November after selling ours in September...we're tied in to our rental till at least March, so thought we may as well get on and do the extension. We bought the house knowing we'd extend - wouldn't have bought it otherwise, really.

And hope not to move again for years and years.

So they will have time to get used to it

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fanjolina · 05/02/2010 18:28

Just do it. And don't compromise to try to appease them. Do it how you want.

When my neighbours put an extension on, the neighbours the other side hated, moaned etc, but now say that it makes the back of all our houses look much better.

Original poster
Elibean · 05/02/2010 18:46

Not sure they'll go that far here (even I think the current backs of the houses are pretty as they are, unfortunately!) but can imagine they'll cease to notice it much after a short time...and tbh, someone is going to extend at some point, quite possibly a lot more than us: the gardens are 80+ ft long, which is long for SW London.

I do love your name, btw....when I feel wussy, I'll remember someone called fanjolina said it was ok and take courage...

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fanjolina · 05/02/2010 18:52

yep, take courage, be bold. you have paid for the house and you have permitted development rights for a reason - so pesky neighbours can't stop you doing moderate developments.

at 80ft long garden

LeninGrad · 05/02/2010 18:56

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cakeforbrains · 05/02/2010 20:35

We are doing an extension at the moment - at the planning stage three of the neighbours objected and were pretty frosty towards us. We got planning permission regardless and are mid-build at the moment. We were really worried that our neighbours would complain lots throughout the build, and generally make life difficult, but they have actually been lovely. We took round bottles of wine and chocs to all the neighbours the week before the builders arrived, and gave them info like the builders name and our mobile numbers, and we've also tried to be chatty with them if we see them, even showed one around the shell. As a result we've got to know people much more and the neighbours are happy. Go for the extension that you want and it will be fine ...

audley · 05/02/2010 20:51

Must hold up hands and say DH and I made a terrible fuss about a build next door to us -started a petition in fact . Now we rather like it

Original poster
Elibean · 05/02/2010 21:07

Audley, I love you for that

Thanks some more. dh says 'thank god for MN' (he's much more hard headed than me, but even he was feeling a bit bad, I can tell )

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